Why is there so much nerd music here?

[vurt]

im returning just to say yeah,maybe i did take things personally
not your fault and not really mine either.
things aint goin so well for me here at the moment and due to one thing and another i cant seem to calm the voices in my head.this leads to paranoia anyway coupled by the fact that i am known here for the "nerd music"(kinda like that ive never known what genre i fit into hehe)

but i know if i step back into this thread again in this frame of mind someone will get hurt,no its not a threat im actually more concerned about me and the way i handle shit from here on in


last thought really is shouldnt people be left to do what they do,thing is ya see a lot of people do actually like listenin to the stuff i beleive you are refferring to.
rules or breaking them doesnt make music any better or worse nothing does it just makes it different
goodbye.

[hjack]

... but i do find playing in key does seem to sound nicer

now why would you say that?

Pointless unwinnable arguments 101

nature or nurture

is harmony in my nature or have i been exposed to it so much anything else is unfamilair and therefore mildly disturbing

and does anyone give a flying ?

I certainly hope not

thanks ericj23, pleasured to read such post

green smilie ripped from Kraklis website

[CskaTorpedo]

How can you be a good musician if you can't even play an instrument? Have we as a society finally said "talent isn't as important as having a good imagination." ??????

yes, we have for at least a couple of centuries now
and I am so damn happy

in the end, after you are DEAD
noone will give a rats ass how talented you were
but if you wrote one good piece of music they will remember it

was Beethoven a kick ass piano player?

is a sequencer THAT different from a score sheet?

where do you draw the line? is splicing tape ok, but editing waveforms not?

I guess it depends on who you are trying to impress, if it's people 200 years from now, then no I guess playing the piano won't really help much.

But if you make music for yourself, I think it's good to have the dicipline to learn something that will make it easier. Also playing an instrument will most certainly help you understand music better.

Edit: I am also a firm believer in "If it's worth doing it won't be easy" I think a lot of people see electronic music as "computer assisted music". And rather than (like Beethoven) going to school or just putting a lot of work into learning music, they instead learn something easier, how to paste loops into acid pro. Or copy midi patterns from songs they download off the internet and use them in their songs. Ambient/Experimental seems like a likely target for people with high ambitions and very little skill. Easy to randomly tweek filters till it does something really strange (c'mon we've all done it). Then call it music.

[jens]

How can you be a good musician if you can't even play an instrument?

I don't know, go back in time and ask Beethoven... but be sure and write the question down for him.

I don't want to join the argument but merely getting the facts straight: are you doubting that Beethoven was a virtous piano-player, a prodigy at playing this instrument?

[Ian Stone]

Agree Torpedo. Playing guitar 24 years has helped me personally in understanding composition and how to approach PC music making in some ways. However, there is still quite a difference in composing a piece with a conventional instrument and composing on a PC. For one thing, you don't have that estetic, hands on advantage of actually playing the instrument, instead you have a mouse. This hasn't been easy for me. I suppose I should take the time and money and get some type of guitar setup for my PC so I can actually play parts rather than rely totally on a VSTi.

[Barnadine]

Hi Cska. Interesting stuff.

Are there too many 'Type X' musicians at kvr?

I wouldn't know. There seems to be a decent enough mix in the monthly comps. Better than there used to be, anyway. I think there are about enough people with a broad enough interest in a wide enough range of music. As many as you can reasonably expect in any particular bunch of people, anyway.

Is 'Type X' music REALLY music?

You get this argument all through history. There is no one music. Gamelan music, eg, would have made little sense to a classical-era composer. There's always going to be a contest between traditionalists wanting to exclude the new or different, and the avant garde wanting to break away, and that's a healthy thing. As for music = tonal music, I think that battle's been lost long ago.

Like some species of modern art, the 'ambient' tag may have a higher tolerance for bullshit wankery, but I don't think that means ambient itself is just navel-gazing.

As for experimentalism in general, maybe you do get a fair amount of inaccessible failures, but that's perhaps a better sign than a website devoted to successful mimicry of the tropes of one particular style. And sure, I have no problem with the basic premise that learning an instrument or studying musical theory is a useful thing even for a devout experimentalist.

But I think we're ignoring the real issue here. Why aren't there more folkies on KvR, dammit?

P.S. There are people who do think noise is music. Why are they wrong?

[spacefox]

So you think noise is music, and then why isn't that car featured in a musical perforance, why do you teach guitar, and not "car sounds" Why isn't there a car sounds CD available ON ANY LABEL?.

The fact a guitar is a more versatile musical instrument than a car, and that its use is rooted in the past is why guitar playing is taught. That has nothing to do with "rules of music"

Whether car sounds feature on an album or not means only that: somebody has or hasn't used these sounds in a musical context. The same way that filtered oscilators were not used in music until a certain point in time.


And what about noise produced with a guitar?

How can you be a good musician if you can't even play an instrument?

You should check this site for some interesting tools which allow you to do so.

[jens]

was Beethoven a kick ass piano player?

Yes, actually he was!

Jeez, why are you all referring to things you quite obviously don't have a clue about?

Don't you think he could play his own piano-stuff or what?


b.t.w.:I'm still not joining the argument!

[birrbits]

I don't want to join the argument but merely getting the facts straight: are you doubting that Beethoven was a virtous piano-player, a prodigy at playing this instrument?

Crap I pulled the Beethoven arguement too
ok so he was a kick ass piano player

But the original question concerned what society valued (imagination vs talent with an instrument) so me forgetting he was a kick ass piano player nicely illustrates my point

[jtxx000]

But the original question concerned what society valued (imagination vs talent with an instrument) so me forgetting he was a kick ass piano player nicely illustrates my point

[CskaTorpedo]

You should check this site for some interesting tools which allow you to do so.[/quote]

I actually clicked the link.... hahahaahahahaha

[Ian Stone]

Geez, this thread must be a record breaker. Well, back to tweaking and twiddling. Adios.

[jens]

For your entertainment and education:

like Mozart. Young Ludwig studied piano at an early age but showed no special talent, for which he was beaten by his father. With adolescence, his musical abilities came to the fore. He studied under Christian Neefe, the court organist in Bonn, and got the job of Deputy Court Organist at the age of 12.
When he was 18, his mother died. His father started drinking heavily and became unable to support the family. It was up to Ludwig to provide an income, which he did by playing the piano and the viola, giving music lessons and various other jobs associated with music. He also composed a few small pieces.

One of his compositions impressed the composer Haydn so much that he offered to teach Beethoven. In 1792, at the age of 22, Beethoven left Bonn for Vienna, Austria, where he lived for the rest of his life. In Vienna, Beethoven had lessons from Haydn and Salieri. He supported himself with the help of aristocratic patrons. He made his performing debut in 1795, playing one of his own compositions, the Piano Concerto No 2, as well as a piano concerto by Mozart. The Viennese public loved him and he never had any problems with money as a result. His compositions from this time are nearly all piano pieces.
[...]
As a world-class pianist, Beethoven particularly favoured the piano in his compositions. He wrote 36 piano sonatas (large works for unaccompanied piano) and five piano concertos (large works for piano and orchestra) as well as a huge range of other piano music.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A584859[/quote]

[CskaTorpedo]

I don't want to join the argument but merely getting the facts straight: are you doubting that Beethoven was a virtous piano-player, a prodigy at playing this instrument?

Crap I pulled the Beethoven arguement too
ok so he was a kick ass piano player

But the original question concerned what society valued (imagination vs talent with an instrument) so me forgetting he was a kick ass piano player nicely illustrates my point

Of course this is arguable till death do us part, but honestly we won't be able to come to a conclusion until we accept the fact that talent is nicely complimented by imagination. Beethoven had both, Kraftwerk had both, and I have both.

Someone else play Devil's advocate for a while or we'll have a bunch of people agreeing with eachother and holding hands while dancing in summer medows, and I have to go to work...

[[absurd]]