Thought I had this sussed but further reading on here has changed my opinion. I have one question.
As I now plan to master outside of my host - CubaseSX - then is there any need to have any effects at all on the master buss?
I figure I could tweak indivudual channels as I mix, then just save the 2track file without any master fx, finally, tweaking/mastering and dithering down to 16/44, in something like ozone?
Or have i missed a trick?
Mastering. fx
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- KVRAF
- 6740 posts since 25 Mar, 2002 from sheffield, england
Sometimes it can be useful to insert compression while mixing to see how it will affect your balance.. remember to bypass it before you export the mix though.ancoats wrote: Or have i missed a trick?
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 178 posts since 10 Sep, 2004 from Sheffield. UK.
Yes, good point. Thanks. Other than that though, you reckon a blank master buss fx channel is fine?platinumears wrote:Sometimes it can be useful to insert compression while mixing to see how it will affect your balance.. remember to bypass it before you export the mix though.ancoats wrote: Or have i missed a trick?
I'm Annie, and I AM your daddy 
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- KVRAF
- 4960 posts since 21 Oct, 2003 from UK
Well, this isn't to say it's right, but I use Vintage Warmer in the master plus a compressor or limit gain, depending on the tune and what it needs.
If you don't have Vintage Warmer, good free options are endorphin or Blockfish
I also use eq for each individual instrument and then possibly a smidgen of eq in the master.
Then it all goes to my audio editor for mastering processes - which is a different story altogether.
But I say, yes, use fx in the master if it has a beneficial effect on your tune. I find it adds to clarity.
If you don't have Vintage Warmer, good free options are endorphin or Blockfish
I also use eq for each individual instrument and then possibly a smidgen of eq in the master.
Then it all goes to my audio editor for mastering processes - which is a different story altogether.
But I say, yes, use fx in the master if it has a beneficial effect on your tune. I find it adds to clarity.
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- The Teach
- 8273 posts since 23 Jul, 2002 from flatness
not to refute micks assertion (and not to say im right either) but i very rarely have anything across the master outs of tracktion (except maybe some reverb to 'glue' the whole mix together if it needs it) ... i tend to apply any necessary effects on a per-track basis or use sends ...
... any polishing of the sound or pre-mastering i do on the rendered stereo track in adobe audition (using a mix of plugins but usually either vintagewarmer or ozone feature pretty heavily)
slainte
rob
... any polishing of the sound or pre-mastering i do on the rendered stereo track in adobe audition (using a mix of plugins but usually either vintagewarmer or ozone feature pretty heavily)
slainte
rob-
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 178 posts since 10 Sep, 2004 from Sheffield. UK.
Thanks guys. I'm more inclined to follow Rob's path I think. Bearing that in mind, Rob, what reverb do you use/reccomend, to use on the master out?pHz wrote:not to refute micks assertion (and not to say im right either) but i very rarely have anything across the master outs of tracktion (except maybe some reverb to 'glue' the whole mix together if it needs it) ... i tend to apply any necessary effects on a per-track basis or use sends ...
... any polishing of the sound or pre-mastering i do on the rendered stereo track in adobe audition (using a mix of plugins but usually either vintagewarmer or ozone feature pretty heavily)
slainte
I'm Annie, and I AM your daddy
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- KVRAF
- 4960 posts since 21 Oct, 2003 from UK
http://www.dasample.com/index.php?show=glaceverb
a recent discovery for me - and it's unbelievably FREE!!!
A most bodacious 'verb and highly recommended.
On the mixing thing - remember there is no right or wrong as such (arguably
) - just whatever works best for you.
a recent discovery for me - and it's unbelievably FREE!!!
A most bodacious 'verb and highly recommended.
On the mixing thing - remember there is no right or wrong as such (arguably
) - just whatever works best for you.-
- KVRAF
- 6937 posts since 4 Jun, 2004 from Utrecht, Holland
To add to the confusion... In the traditional sense "mastering" is what's done to a bunch of songs that end up on one album, so they do not sound all too different, like it were different artists recording in different studios.
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- KVRAF
- 7936 posts since 18 Feb, 2003 from out there somewhere
I thought it was obvious sorry. I don't bother with fx on my master outs. I do all my mastering on the wav file in soundforge. I may EQ individual tracks and I tend to compress my drum tracks etc. Then I bounce the file to wav and master with Ozone.ancoats wrote:CypherOne wrote:I don't bother personally.Er, with what? come on, talk to me
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- KVRAF
- 25030 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia
jep - agreed - Rob basically said it as well - but I'll put it straighter: fx on the master-out are generally evil!CypherOne wrote:I thought it was obvious sorry. I don't bother with fx on my master outs. I do all my mastering on the wav file in soundforge. I may EQ individual tracks and I tend to compress my drum tracks etc. Then I bounce the file to wav and master with Ozone.ancoats wrote:CypherOne wrote:I don't bother personally.
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- KVRAF
- 7936 posts since 18 Feb, 2003 from out there somewhere
oops, sorry. I never read Rob's posts...jens wrote: jep - agreed - Rob basically said it as well - but I'll put it straighter: fx on the master-out are generally evil!
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- KVRAF
- 13444 posts since 14 Nov, 2000 from Hannover / Germany
It really depends on what you're doing.jens wrote: jep - agreed - Rob basically said it as well - but I'll put it straighter: fx on the master-out are generally evil!
I would recommend to mix completely WITHOUT FX on the master because that will force you to get the individual signal's levels right. With, say, a limiter on the master you won't detect the nasty peaks of your kick (just as an example) but just wonder why the mix is pumping funnily instead.
Bottomline: Work and mix without master FX!
When done with your mix you may then decide.
Personally, I prefer to export/render my mix at 24bit and master using something else but my sequencer. Whenever I've done something really worth it, I'd take it somewhere else anyways.
In general (assuming you're done with mixing) you could as well apply master FX in your host (instead of using, say, a mastering editor such as WaveLab).
But: You would have to dither down to 16bit then. No problem, but what about fades you may perhaps want to apply to the mastered files? Do it on the 16bit dithered file? That's a no-no, assuming you're working in 24bit. So, automate your master level instead? Another no-no because you won't have proper visual control, which sometimes is important too.
Also, one *might* want to export the mix at higher sample rates than 44.1 (personally I don't give a shit, but some people seem to do), because certain mastering FX might sound better at higher rates. You won't be able to take advance of that in your host's master, because it'd mean you'd have to switch your project sample rate to a higher value - impossible because of audio files recorded at lower sample rates.
And finally, you may also want to tweak individual sections of your mix sligthly different. Again, automating such things in your host would be a royal pita.
What I do is to usually slap a brickwall limiter onto my master out before exporting. But I'll only use a very moderate threshold setting on that one, to catch the very highest peaks that might have gotten through individual signal's compressors.
This will allow for a slightly hotter mixdown level without noticeably changing the dynamics. But as said, the settings I'm using are VERY moderate.
There are 3 kinds of people:
Those who can do maths and those who can't.
Those who can do maths and those who can't.