volume of drum sounds ... again

[weaverid]

I have ST2XL and the latest SS - and I am using both with generally great success. I am concerned however with the implementation of many of the drum sounds - and how loud or soft they sound when responding to the midi volume (1 thru 127). For example, many snare sounds are way too loud ... and at generally the same volume whether the midi volume is at 1 ... or at 30. Many of the imap drum kits (and others like Comp Vintage and Brush Verb etc) are like this. The snare is too loud with a volume of 1 - and almost the same volume when set to 30. I would expect any sound with a volume of 1 to be pretty soft. In contrast - kits like Pop Small react like I would expect (midi volume 1 on snare = hard to hear, and midi volume 127 on same snare is full volume).

The more kits I try - I discover a wide variety of implementation concerning this characteristic.

This is a tad frustrating. I don't know of a way to spread out the volume more evenly.

Any suggestions?

IW

[Kim Lajoie]

Compression?

Forever,




Kim.

[Mr. Tunes]

do you use zone editing at all? if you do you can go around and manually adjust each drum, and save your preset. add an extension to all your files that you tweak so you know it's part of your mixing scheme.

that's the best i can think of.

[weaverid]

I don't know of any setting within the zone editing that would re-scale the volume like I am talking about. The maximum volume (midi 127) for the snare in an Imap kit is fine... plenty loud. But try setting the midi volume to the smallest of values - 1 - and the snare is still way too loud. Even more odd is that the volume difference between 1 and 30 is difficult to tell. I guess if one's music always calls for an almost maximum volume snare - then Imap works fine.

There is always the option of using the same kit in another midi channel. So - for loud snares - you use the kit with the factory settings. When you want the snare with a low volume, you change midi channels and modify the kit to play real soft. In other words - use the midi channel as a volume control.

Again - some drum kits are fine. But many are not. I like the Imap kits because of the greater variety of snare sounds. Unfortunately they appear to be the worst offender wrt volume dynamic.

IW

[Kim Lajoie]

Press "Zone" to enter zone editing mode.
Play a snare.
Select envelope 1
The last parameter of envelope 1 is "level". Turn this down as much as you like.
Repeat for any other loud snares.

Forever,




Kim.

[Mr. Tunes]

weav, what kind of controller are you using?
is it old?

just asking to help gauge the situation, not to be offensive

have you tried adjusting the velocity curves while zone editing?

sometimes i create layers of drum kits where a bunch of the samples are fully muted and i load a few kits over each other.

a lot of extra control has been implemented in this version of the engine but it hides some of the features that you see in some competing samplers. the upside is a really convenient synth that just sounds great.

[Squids]

Press "Zone" to enter zone editing mode.
Play a snare.
Select envelope 1
The last parameter of envelope 1 is "level". Turn this down as much as you like.
Repeat for any other loud snares.

Forever,


Kim.

Thanks Jeez.

This is the correct answer. Also, compression will help as well. Adjusting level AND compression? Priceless.

[weaverid]

I am familiar with the zone editing. Maybe there is a unique level adjustment that I don't know about. I am only familiar with the overall gain for a sound. If I turn down the gain on the snare - then the volume is turned down for all volume commands on that snare. Or - are you saying that by playing with the level control - it also invokes a form of compression?

I'm expecting the following for most sounds:
Midi
volume 127 90 60 30 1
loudest loud med soft quiet


For the IMAP snares I hear the following:
Midi
volume 127 90 60 30 1
loudest loud med med med

Sorry to drag this out.
IW

[weaverid]

I'm probably not clear enough on which "level" control I'm talking about. I mean the one within envelope 1.

Also - is there a velocity curve adjustment within the envelope? Linear vs Exponential? Maybe I'm not looking close enough.

IW

[Squids]

I'm probably not clear enough on which "level" control I'm talking about. I mean the one within envelope 1.

Also - is there a velocity curve adjustment within the envelope? Linear vs Exponential? Maybe I'm not looking close enough.

IW

Look harder. You can adjust the curve in the velocity section. You can adjust the volume level per zone in the "LEVEL" parameter of ENV1.

[weaverid]

I tried all the variables: level, vel curve and taking out all compression - and it doesn't help much.

How much would you expect the volume of a snare to change from a midi volume of 40 to a midi volume of 1? Half as loud? I would expect an even greater volume reduction. For IMAP kits I see a volume reduction of 10-15%. Something is fishy.

For the PopSmall kit - I hear a dramatic change in volume - as I would expect. Maybe an 80% reduction in volume for the same type of test.

Thanks for the help so far!
IW

[weaverid]

I had almost given up on Sampletank drums - but I finally figured it out: In the "volume" section is an adjustment simply titled "AMP". Lo and behold it directly modifies midi volume. Many of the drum sounds have this adjusted "up" so that even the lowest of midi volumes (hit the key on the keyboard as light as possible) gives a loud sound.
Whew. I'm back in business.
IW