How best to denigrate non-modular hosts?

[SJ_Digriz]

As for fading / cross-fading / multi-track recording, its all there

multi-select events and do a trim to head/trim to tail. I couldn't see how to select multiple track audio events in T1. I could only get 1 track editing at a time. Let alone do track comp/cuts.

Like I've said before in other threads, I only demoed 1 for about 2 or 3 hours. It made my eyes hurt. It had LESS features than what I already had. And, it didn't seem any more/less easy than anything else I used.

[shamann]

hey plat...you there? I'm waiting to have my ignorance lifted? How do you do multi-take track comping and batch head/crossfade/tail editing of stems in Tracktion?

So, an object lesson here on non-modular hosts: they exist for people who would use terminology like 'comping.' It makes sense to me, I use modular hosts and I would never think to use the term (I assume it is shorthand for compressing rather than compiling, yes?)

In truth, I rarely make the separation between functions any more. Writing, arranging, recording, mixing, all become part of the same musical process. Modular hosts facilitate that way of approaching the software in toto as an instrument (ie a tool/extension for the creation of music).

The irony is that all hosts without lower level modular routing are still modular. Cubase doesn't make music. Cubase routes instructions to instruments to effects to a mixer (ie a series of interconnected modules). And SJ Digriz is right, there is utility in such an arrangement. I used Cakewalk for several years, and tended to compartmentalize in the same manner, and it was all fairly straightforward.

Each host offers you a different way of thinking about music. We could each arrive at the same end result, but the interim steps would be completely different. In this example SJD needs to "multi-take track comping and batch head/crossfade/tail editing of stems" whatever the hell that is. I don't think about in those terms, but I bet I probably have done the task at least once in a very different manner.

[IIRs]

multi-select events and do a trim to head/trim to tail. I couldn't see how to select multiple track audio events in T1. I could only get 1 track editing at a time. Let alone do track comp/cuts.

<CNTRL> click multiple clips, or hold <ALT> to lassoo a range. Split them all with the "/" key. Slip-editing the starts of multiple clips doesn't quite work properly in T1 (fixed in T2) but everything else is possible.

Besides, this is a very specific example. I could name twenty things I can do easily in Tracktion that would take you much longer in your host, or require extra apps such as eXT.

I like the colours myself, but T2 will let you choose your own if you prefer. Its due out sometime this month hopefully..

[donkey tugger]

So, an object lesson here on non-modular hosts: they exist for people who would use terminology like 'comping.' It makes sense to me, I use modular hosts and I would never think to use the term (I assume it is shorthand for compressing rather than compiling, yes?)

Nay lad, it means compiling a good track of vocals/guitar/whatever from several different tracks.

[shamann]

Nay lad, it means compiling a good track of vocals/guitar/whatever from several different tracks.

Well there you have it. Lingo hurts my head, while for lingo users, explicitly modular hosts hurt theirs.

All very fascinating.

[IIRs]

T2 has full-on loop recording features, with multiple takes appearing in a menu for the resulting clip. Comping takes is a simple matter of splitting the clip at the appropriate points, and choosing a take for each section. Cross-fade by slip-editing a small overlap, and pressing "auto-cross-fade". I really can't imagine anything easier..

[aMUSEd]

Honestly, the non-modular supporters make a good point: ease of use.


Still, in any host whose primary interface is non-modular, you oughtta be able to "flip her over" and wire things up in more flexible ways. "Make simple things simple; make complex things possible."

Like Logic you mean

[donkey tugger]

Nay lad, it means compiling a good track of vocals/guitar/whatever from several different tracks.

Well there you have it. Lingo hurts my head, while for lingo users, explicitly modular hosts hurt theirs.

All very fascinating.

Hmmm, if you say so!

Personally I don't give a toss. I've done most kinds of music in Cubarse and FL Studio, their lack of a 'modularity paradigm' (nice lingo....) means f**k all to me, seems to be the new buzzword though.

[shamann]

See, you said paradigm and it hurt my head.

[Borogove]

I've done most kinds of music in Cubarse and FL Studio, their lack of a 'modularity paradigm' (nice lingo....) means f**k all to me, seems to be the new buzzword though.

I'll be happy to use any term you like to mean "the host allows you to use a plugin which has, e.g., 3 inputs and 17 outputs and allows you to connect each of the outputs to any input of any other plugin currently running in the host."

The VST spec doesn't say anything to suggest this is hard or special or unusual. The first VST host I ever used doesn't consider this hard or special or unusual. All I want is a world where I can develop a 3-in-17-out plug and not have to worry about people saying "this crashes Orion" or "I tried your plugin and it didn't do anything in Cubase."

[SJ_Digriz]

<CNTRL> click multiple clips, or hold <ALT> to lassoo a range. Split them all with the "/" key. Slip-editing the starts of multiple clips doesn't quite work properly in T1 (fixed in T2) but everything else is possible.

ok, when I demoed T1 I couldn't get this to work at all. I figured it was possible. But it did not work this way.

Besides, this is a very specific example. I could name twenty things I can do easily in Tracktion that would take you much longer in your host, or require extra apps such as eXT.

Yep, same back at ya. These tools are for specific things. As soon as Tracktion has all the options piled in it will not be as "easy" to use as people claim it is now(which I think is a bogus claim. It's no more/less easy than anything else). I'm just arguing the side that the modular approach has the same issues that non-modular does, just in different areas. Feature bloat leads to the problems.

The idea that modular is easier or more functional is rediculous. It has specific situations where it can be. But it also has situations where it isn't or more importantly where the architecture becomes invisible or irrelevant.

I used the editing example on purpose. Once you get into the editor the distinction between modular/non-modular disappears. It's now down to "can I do....easily/logically". 9 times out of 10 Cubase/Logic etc... use an efficient method to perform a function. It's always amazing to me that people claim "it's so much easier in xxxx application" when usually it is copied almost verbatum from the app the person is trashing.

..but T2 will let you choose your own if you prefer. Its due out sometime this month hopefully..

Sooooo, you are telling me I'm full of shit and started quoting feature/functions from a version of the software that isn't even out yet? Gee thanks. No wonder I'm ignorant.

[SJ_Digriz]

(nice lingo....) means f**k all to me, seems to be the new buzzword though.

and as usual DT says in a couple words what I've been on about from the start.

[haydxn]

you're a bit of a ass tho.

and T is undeniably easier to use than almost all other hosts.

[Borogove]

(nice lingo....) means f**k all to me, seems to be the new buzzword though.

and as usual DT says in a couple words what I've been on about from the start.

So how do you respond to my point?

[SJ_Digriz]

you're a bit of a ass tho.

and T is undeniably easier to use than almost all other hosts.

I totally deny this. The only host I ever used that was even remotely confusing was Logic because the environment stuff. The rest of them make sense. In-tracks->Out. The only thing harder in one host or another is learning the depth of features. So again I say in that regard yes T1 is easier. You get to the end of the manual much faster.