Engineers: Bass, Kick?

[CskaTorpedo]

I guess I want to know how other engineers mix their bass and it's relation to the kick drum.

This is a question pertaining to your style of mixing, I know there is no RIGHT answer to this question but but I would like to hear some ideas to broaden my thoughts on the matter, if anyone can post examples that would be cool also.

[ezeeboogie]

Spaceboy.

This cool little plugin can be used to create 'space' in your bass for your bassdrums. Or vice versa. Right then, that's a big part of the hard work out of the way for ya!

[BertKoor]

I never had a real problem mixing base and bass. Maybe that is because I make rock music and not dance?

[jones-y]

Try using a ducking compressor on the bassline, sidechained to the kick.

Try bussing them together and compressing them, use a high threshold and a high ratio (maybe 3:1 or 4:1) with medium attack (like 20-30ms) and a medium release (100ms or so). Set the threshold so that the compressor triggers mostly on the kick drum, but lets the bass through. It gives a different sound than the sidechain method above. As a variation, use a multiband compressor, and bypass all but the lowest band.

One of my personal favorites: Use a parametric EQ to cut the kick drum at 250-350HZ, with a narrow bandwidth and do the same for the bassline. Depending on which one is deeper, cut that one higher. For example, if you're using a deep 808 style kick drum with a bass guitar, apply the EQ to the kick at 320 or so, and to the bass guitar at 260-280. It helps to give them some separation.

[Kim Lajoie]

Ok, here we go again. This is how I do it:

Compression is not so important. Eq less so.

The most important steps are:

1) Planning what you want the kick and bass to do
2) Choosing sounds that are appropriate for your plan
3) Composing sensibly.

Planning
You should decide how you want your kick and bass to sound before getting stuck into tweaking. Rarely can the kick and bass BOTH be huge and fat on the bottom end, as well as being full in the mids and articulate in the highs... It's easier to establish a hierarchy. For example, you can let the kick take the lowest bottom, and give the bass more body in the mids, but let the attack of the kick come through in the highs. Alternatively, you could have a bottom-heavy booty bass, and couple that with a lighter, perhaps shorter kick.

Most of the time when we hear "fat kick and bass", the "fatness" comes from the two working together like that - one fills in the holes of the other. Which is which will depend on the music.

Of course, browsing presets and messing about it a good way to get inspired, but once you have a good idea of what you want, go easy on the tweaks!

Choosing
Once you've got the plan, choosing sounds is much easier. This includes programming, but I'm specifically calling it "choosing" because you will be creating a sound that you've already heard before. Yes, it might involve some synth programming, effects, whatever... but you'll be choosing the sounds from the massive bank of sounds in your memory (in your brain).

The trick with choosing sounds is to stay on target. Don't get distracted by endlessly tweaking parameters or scrolling through hundreds of samples. Know your kit well enough so you don't have to waste time working out how to get a certain sound. You should already know how to do it - just spend the time in actually doing it.

This is where you'd use EQ to shape the sounds so they become closer to what's in your head. Compression is usually not needed - most bass sounds can have their dynamics precisely controlled from the synth or sampler. The only exception I can think of is a "plucky" bass sample that could do with some compression to bring up the level of the decay after the pluck. Most kick drum samples are already compressed and don't need further dynamics tweaks (except maybe to enhance/reduce the attack - which can usually be done from the sampler). If you're using a drum synth (not a sampler) and you think you need compression - chances are you really need to adjust the synthesis parameters.

I've heard others say that layering kick drums can be a good tactic. Personally, I haven't found a need to layer them. I find I can get what I want by starting with a good (appropriate) sample, and editing (EQ, envelope, etc). Layering also opens a HUGE can of worms when it comes to workflow - the possibilities are huge. For example - let's say you have 100 kick drum samples. If you decide to layer two of them, there are 10 000 combinations! If you want to layer three, there are 1 000 000 combinations! If you want to layer them with a programmable drumsynth... well, the possibilities are endless! Not good for workflow!

You might still be asking - Why use familiar sounds? Why not create totally new sounds? Don't kid yourself. Unless you're into experimental academic art noise, most of the sounds you'll be using in your music already exist on recordings of other people's music. Is this unoriginal? Perhaps... but like I said - if you're totally into making sounds that nobody's heard before, get into art-noise. Otherwise, be content that your music will contain familiar elements. No rock music fan complains that all their favourite bands use electric guitars.

Composing
If you've done the first two steps well, then this is the easiest. If your sounds are chosen well, you'll be free to have your kick and bass playing at the same time, or not, and both will sound good. This means that your choice of notes is a composition choice, not a mix choice. Big difference. You can have the bass and kick play whatever is appropriate for the music, without being limited by the sounds.

If your bass and kick are both equally fat, then it will be very difficult to avoid mud when they're both sounding at the same time. This will limit you to compose the bass and kick to be "taking turns". Great if you're into dancefloor trance, not so great for most other genres.


I hope that helps.


... or you could just EQ and compress the fnck out of your bass and kick, and wonder why your mix can't get out of the quickmud it's stuck in.

Forever,




Kim.

[scamme]

I already heard that kind of question here, so i found my answer and copy-past it :


IT'S ALL ABOUT EQ!!!
Bass drum playing around 250 hertz, and basses usualy around 75 hertz.
Lets take an example and say that BD is on 200 hertz and the BASS is 60 hertz.

Bass drum's eq should be at 3db (up) on 200 hertz and 1.4 of "Q" and -1.5db (down) on 60 hertz and 2.7 of "Q".

Bass's eq should be at 3db (up) on 60 hertz and 1.4 of "Q" and -1.5db (down) on 200 hertz and 2.7 of "Q".

I hope you understand my point, and you'll be surprised!

The whole discussion you'll find here:

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=66064

[jones-y]

Bass drum playing around 250 hertz, and basses usualy around 75 hertz.

not true in my genre

[scamme]

Bass drum playing around 250 hertz, and basses usualy around 75 hertz.

not true in my genre

I already heard that kind of question here, so i found my answer and copy-past it :



Lets take an example and say that...

[nool]

just make sure they are both loud and don't occupy the same frequences on ur spec analyzer