Distortion guitar FX line-up?

[druid]

Not sure if my subject line is accurate enough to describe what I want.

I've never played guitar. I haven't been able to find information on common setups for distorted guitars (what order the FX go in and what kinds of settings they use). Experimentation is fine but I don't intend using guitar all that much for my tracks and would prefer having a look at some examples so I can jump more quickly to a sound I want.

I like guitar sounds from a lot of heavier stuff (though not everything I list may be heavy), Spineshank, Nine Inch Nails, Hanzel und Gretyl, Celldweller, Sulpher, Zeromancer maybe. Etc. Korn even, perhaps.

I'm not really sure what order they put FX in and what settings they use to get what effects. I don't need a comprehensive list of exactly what popular musicians setups were/are, however I haven't really been able to find anything. My lack of knowledge and experience in this probably make me choose the wrong keywords for searches, so I have come up with very little.

I was also unsure of which forum to put this in - it's to do with FX chains but .. well, good enough. :)

Can anyone help?

[edit]

An afterthought... A lot of guitar stuff I listen to, the guitars sound very consistent. I think they are heavily limited and/or compressed. But is this all that keeps them sounding the same volume or is it to do with the FX and playing as well?

Previous attempts of mine have sounded a little weak, FX wise. They have sounded amateur in sound. This is with a guitar plugin true, but I still expect better results and know they are possible .. I just haven't found out how yet.

[Mutant]

I like guitar sounds from a lot of heavier stuff (though not everything I list may be heavy), Spineshank, Nine Inch Nails, Hanzel und Gretyl, Celldweller, Sulpher, Zeromancer maybe. Etc. Korn even, perhaps.

http://guitargeek.com/

The Guitar Rig Database Search> Band> Korn> Head> Go

http://guitargeek.com/rigview/350/

[druid]

Great! There's some useful information there. THanks.

[Newbie Brad]

Check out Slayer 2

[Sascha Franck]

The secrets behind a great heavy guitar tone actually aren't all that secret.

What you will often find being involved is some great guitars. Les Pauls, maybe some Paul Reed Smiths - at least that's what the Limp Bizkit dude is using, maybe some other solid heavy axes. Usually none of the poser stuff with whammy bars and such, these only steal sustain.

What you will further find being involved is some great amps, along the lines of Rectifiers (for that modern sound), Soldanos (for a less raw, yet heavily driving sound) and - of course - Marshalls of all different kinds.
Those are probably boosted by some signal boosters or overdrive pedals.

Then you may find some proper recording rooms being involved as well.
Along with a bunch of suitable mics (for an easy solution, an SM57 would still be your best bet, a beta 57 for a more modern tone) and a clean signal path into a good sounding console and you'll be all set in general.
A lot of people into heavy guitar sounds still use tape to track them before transfering them onto digital media, but your mileage on that point may very pretty much.

What you will NEVER find regarding the guitar sounds you mentioned are virtual guitarists, virtual slayers or whatever. Those just don't make it, period.
Anybody telling you anything else should post a sound sample along with the MIDI file. Rest assured, nobody will come up with anything comparable to the real deal.

Finally, what you will hardly ever find (but that might change more or less soon) is virtual guitar amp simulators being used.
As said, I'm pretty much sure this will change one day though.

[CatBoy]

If yo listen to Kings X latest album Ty used a pod line6 on that album.
although it probably sounded the same as any amp he ever used he said the feel was totally wrong.

An easy way to make a weak rythem track full is just copy the track and paste it into a new channel.
Do this at least 4 times and play with time offset on each track.
Most of the bands you've mentioned all overdub guitar tracks at least 4 times.

guitar effects before an amp give a more "analog" sound as opposed to putting fx in an fx loop in the amp.
Use the latter for crystal clean reverbs or delays

[tee boy]

Sascha,

You hit the nail smack bang on the head mate. But if I might add something:

- Proper recording space is only really required when using more distant mic placement. I know some people like to close mic a cab with a dynamic, then put a condensor a few feet back. In this case the room would matter, but for super close micing its not so important. I record all kinds of amps in my lounge (honest, my neighbours with tell you!).

So if you have a good amp, dont be affraid to crack it up and record away. Still the best way to get those killer axe sounds (imo!).


- Trent Reznor from NIN does actually use all kinds of rack and even software gizmos in his sounds. Infact his first few albums were all totally DI'ed. For the Fragile album most was DI again, but some were later sent through cabs.

Heres a trick that i heard him using. He took the stereo out from his Digitech 2112 and sent the two channels into different preamps. He then sent these signals to a stereo power amp and out of two 4X12's. Apparently this gives you this massive stereo sound (and certainly beats does loads of overdubbs).

So for more wacky sounds like those on the NIN albums, I recommend getting some mad pedal chains together and DIing them into the comp for some plugin action.

[CatBoy]

mic placement is very subjective
dont think there is a hard-rule of thumb here.
George lynch used 17 mics placed all over the room when he recorded Mr.Scary.
Lots of studio's place a 57 off-axis a few inches away then cover the whole cabinet with a wooden box lined with carpet.

get some general ideas and just experiment
and most of all......have fun!

[Sascha Franck]

- Proper recording space is only really required when using more distant mic placement. I know some people like to close mic a cab with a dynamic, then put a condensor a few feet back. In this case the room would matter, but for super close micing its not so important.

I know. I've recently been to some small studio and the dude over there is using a dead box, approximately 1m³ in size or so. There's a 12" Celestion and two SM57s in it. The mics are moveable to a certain degree from outside, so he can decide whether to catch the sound all the way straight or have them a bit off axis.
He's getting great sounds with this and a few stock amps and you can almost whisper when standing right besides that box. Mind you, I almost couldn't even lift the thing alone... heavy as a f**k.

I think, when I'll be moving (next winter or next spring) this will be one thing I'm gonna build. Hopefully I'll have enough space to include 2 12"s, so I could get a little of that phasing that we all love from big speaker cabinets (at least sometimes it's just what you want).

Btw, anybody who never tried this but has an option to do it somehow, should fool around with any simple amp/speaker combo and two mics (which could even be identical).
Now pull up both mic channels and move the mics alternatively. WORLDS of differences!
The same goes for having both mics fixed and only variyng the levels of the mic channels. Sometimes there's some mad phasing happening, sometimes some heavy EQing. This is WAY more dramatic than anything all current speaker simulators could offer.
Sonic results vary from pretty harsh and direct to very mellow to very weird and out of phase - and all of these can be of use.
Usually, when recording from such a setup, you'd just track one take (both mics mixed together to one track), then slightly alter the blend levels and record another track. Assuming your playing was tight, there's all your fat sound.
As said, I haven't heard any speaker simulator which would let you do this as easily.

I really hope amp and speaker simulators will be up to the task one day. I just love them for convenience, own quite some of them too (a Pod, a VAmp, an old H&K RedBox MkII which I'm running some Soldano preamp through and a GT-5 which isn't as bad as I originally thought), but they just don't give any option to manipulate the sound as easily and effective as in the above given example.