Is the UAD plugs really THAT much better?

[Henchman]

Now, on to the next point. Once the audio is mixed you need to have it mastered. You can do a LOT for mastering inside a DAW these days. BUT, none of it touches what can be done in a place with good hardware. It's not even close.

Uh, that's what a mastering house is for.

[donkey tugger]

Now, on to the next point. Once the audio is mixed you need to have it mastered. You can do a LOT for mastering inside a DAW these days. BUT, none of it touches what can be done in a place with good hardware. It's not even close.

Uh, that's what a mastering house is for.

Now pardon my ignorance SJ (ignorant, moi?), but I was under the assumption that for mastering you were more paying for the skills of the engineer and the specially designed acoustics of the emvironment etc, rathter than the equipement used?

I know the mastering done for the k-v-r resonance CD made my turgid shite sound like a millon dollars ( a bit tooo nice for me mind ), yet he did it all with UAD/powercore/vsts.

[SJ_Digriz]

Now, on to the next point. Once the audio is mixed you need to have it mastered. You can do a LOT for mastering inside a DAW these days. BUT, none of it touches what can be done in a place with good hardware. It's not even close.

Uh, that's what a mastering house is for.

Indeed, a good mastering house will use good hardware. A "budget" mastering house will use in the box. The difference is huge.

[SJ_Digriz]

Now pardon my ignorance SJ (ignorant, moi?), but I was under the assumption that for mastering you were more paying for the skills of the engineer and the specially designed acoustics of the emvironment etc, rathter than the equipement used?

Those places with specially tuned environments and hoity toity engineers tend to have specially priced hardware for them to twiddle with

I know the mastering done for the k-v-r resonance CD made my turgid shite sound like a millon dollars ( a bit tooo nice for me mind ), yet he did it all with UAD/powercore/vsts.

Not one place have I said you can't make good sounding mixes using UAD or even native plugs. In fact I've said the opposite. Some of the stuff that gets produced here and on other sites is amazing in detail. Most of the best sounding stuff tends to be electronic in nature with very little "live" audio though(there are exceptions).

What I am saying is that the difference between the signal coming off a $2500+ channel strip and any vst analogy is not yet at the same level. It especially shows up at the mastering stage, but can also impact tracking.


BTW: those same expensive "engineers" can make stuff sound terrible too, even with the gazillion $$ gear. And if someone turned me loose on it, it would sound even worse.

[nuffink]

What I am saying is that the difference between the signal coming off a $2500+ channel strip and any vst analogy is not yet at the same level.

You are now. Previously you were saying the difference was "huge". How huge? 3 miles? 17 tonne? 45dB?

[Kingston]

I don't care how much you guys kick and scream. You can't even get close with 99% of the PC based cards.

You know, if you ask nicely, I could come and help you pull your head from up your arse. That way you could actually hear that plugins do in fact give you equal results in experienced hands.

[Henchman]

[quote="Henchman"
I don't care how much you guys kick and scream. You can't even get close with 99% of the PC based cards.

Well, maybe you can't.

Remember. A bad carpenter blames his tools.

[jones-y]

experienced hands.

And that, my friends, is the final determinant.

In the right hands, mixing with Logic's included plugs Through a Soundblaster will sound darned good.

In the wrong hands, UA 2-610's feeding LA2a's and Avalon EQ's going into a Amek-Neve Console will sound like crap.

Stop fighting over gear, and learn your chops with whatever you have/can afford. Because I'm willing to bet that more than a few of us participating in this conversation are not full fledged mix or mastering engineers. Not to insult anyone who is a full fledged mix or mastering engineer. But if you are, then you, of all people, should know its skill first, gear second.

Then once you got your chops up, make your way over to mercenary.com and proceed to drool.

And besides, why not have the best of both worlds? What's wrong with having a 2-610 feeding a Voxengo compressor? Or bussing that digital signal from <insert favorite DAW> to an external compressor? Or a Minimoog in conjunction with Sytrus?

[ericj23]

should i point out the four tet does indeed record everything on his soundblaster - he records his guitar on the mic that comes free with the card

and his records sound great

I can see that a soundblaster might not be ideal for recording an orchestra or an upright bass or somesuch acoustic instrument where the fidelity MIGHT be noticeable

but surely when mixing you could compensate for any failings in the recording

[Moritz Morpheus MkIII]

good call, mjones!

did ya get my email?

[MickGael]

Ok enough of this bullshit!

First of all, most of you nay-sayers seem to be fixed and obsessed (to put it mildly) with the idea that plugins have to be hardware emulations.

Youe lists are absolutely irrelevant, because the goal of digital plugin doesn't have to be 100% accurate emulation of those units. Hence I won't jump on the fashionable (but audio-wise rednecky) bandwagon of comparing the UAD1 to the real things although it would be valid.

Along these lines I could list a few,

Voxengo:

HarmoniEQ 1.1 (soft mode). The fact that you can even reproduce this sound on hardware should speak for itself. If you claim that his EQ sounds bad or inferior you are in the wrong line of duty and need consider a career change. Yes, it sounds digital, but GOOD digital. (some of this applies to GlissEQ2 as well, but it's not quite as smooth)

Polysquasher and Soniformer: Soniformer sound and shaping flexibility is in a class of its own. Same attributes apply here as on the first example.

Warmifier... yes, it actually sounds better than your hi end tube circuits on several sound types. Again, it sounds digital, but GOOD digital.

OtiumFX compadre and Kjaehus Audio GCO1:
Give me the analog compressor that gives the flexibility and sound of these and I'll stop my rant. Wait, you can't. This type of sound and shaping is pretty much only possible with digital comps.

I'll limit my range of examples to EQs and comps becuase this list would go on and on if I mentioned other types of effects.


Now before you get mad at me, I do realise and hear the different flavour of hi end analog equipment. It's just that they are not the holy grail of all audio life, and certainly not the only way to get a world class sound. Modern producer uses the best of both worlds. Remember the fact that you mostly have fairly generic non hi-end AD/DA converters with generic clocks. That alone is a major contributor to the "inferior" digital sound. Get a better sound on the way in, and the plugins will sound better. Shit goes in, shit comes out.


Many of you emulation fixated naysayers are standing in the way of digital revolution as a stumbling block to developers. New things could've been done on digital side a lot better if companies didn't always have to first think about the emulation fixated audience.

Not at all a naysayer. Play with an API 550b and get back to me.

Just kidding.

Not really.

[jones-y]

good call, mjones!

did ya get my email?

Sure did!

Haven't had a chance to sit down and do the dirtywork yet, but hopefully this weekend!

[Kingston]

Not at all a naysayer. Play with an API 550b and get back to me.

Just kidding.

Not really.

Did you not understand anything at all I was saying?

Never mind, you obviously didn't.

[jones-y]

but surely when mixing you could compensate for any failings in the recording

According to the pros, that's a very bad strategy. And I've come to agree with them.

[donkey tugger]

experienced hands.

And that, my friends, is the final determinant.

In the right hands, mixing with Logic's included plugs Through a Soundblaster will sound darned good.

In the wrong hands, UA 2-610's feeding LA2a's and Avalon EQ's going into a Amek-Neve Console will sound like crap.

Stop fighting over gear, and learn your chops with whatever you have/can afford. Because I'm willing to bet that more than a few of us participating in this conversation are not full fledged mix or mastering engineers. Not to insult anyone who is a full fledged mix or mastering engineer. But if you are, then you, of all people, should know its skill first, gear second.

Then once you got your chops up, make your way over to mercenary.com and proceed to drool.

And besides, why not have the best of both worlds? What's wrong with having a 2-610 feeding a Voxengo compressor? Or bussing that digital signal from <insert favorite DAW> to an external compressor? Or a Minimoog in conjunction with Sytrus?

Well said, apart from use of the word 'chops'. Bit cringeworthy that, almost on a par with 'DAW' and 'rompler'