Cubase SX3 drives me nuts

[waveriderarts]

I love what is happening on the vst front, but with DAW/sequencers it is a very very bad situation currently...

I need to somewhat agree. Since Emagic f**ked their Windows users there's not all that much competition anymore.

yes, gimme a pattern oriented sequencer that works on PC!!!! should I have realized the price of software, and the amount of bugs and no-nos that come with them... before investing all in a PC.... I really cannot get the fact that NO ONE had produced a sequencer that equal the simplest of grooveboxes...

And about powerfull wave editors????? I know wavelab and sound forge, good but overly expensive, no free or affordable one that I know of, that is really good.

[waveriderarts]

So my question for CSX3 users, any improvements for thoses two points????

No not really, Cubase isn't really meant to be a DJ tool.

No insults! I am not a DJ, I need that to control VSTi from my midi controller, of course the assignment is different from song to song...

[SJ_Digriz]

So my question for CSX3 users, any improvements for thoses two points????

No not really, Cubase isn't really meant to be a DJ tool.

No insults! I am not a DJ, I need that to control VSTi from my midi controller, of course the assignment is different from song to song...

err...sorry wasn't even trying to insult you or anyone for that matter. I was saying that that type of function would primarily be needed for a live application which Cubase is not.

You can have song by song configs by the way, you just have to load the xml. Not ideal, but it works. Again, not gonna fly for "live" (not gonna say dj hehehe) situations.

[SJ_Digriz]

oh yeah, GR got pan back..........that going away was one of the funniest things ever.

[original flipper]

HI

As another ex Logic user I find it interesting to read the comments of fellow 'widows' - it is hard to not refer back to a tool that played such a central role in your music making - I would personally have given up most practically all my other soft synths/fx ect if I could have kept using it - I know I could have gone Mac (and sometimes regret not doing so).

It is still early days with Music making software - OK, so many of us gave up an ATARI/AMIGA music making platform or whatever - the trade of was powerfull computers that could go way beyond midi-sequencing, so we did not really loose - but when it comes to DAW sequencers we are talking about something very different.

To get back on track I would be surprised if there is anyone out there that has demoed as many host sequencers as me, and I can honestly say that finding a host that you are comfortable with is VERY HARD!!!

I have been using Tracktion and SXV3 exclusively now for several months and although I really have grown to love Tracktion I can't help going back to SXV3 - I agree with much of what 'Sascha Franck' has said and to be honest he deserves to be listerned to because like him I am involved in Education (although not music based) and you very quickly find out what programs people adapt to and which boggle their minds - I think 'Sascha' will tell you that SX for all its faults (?) is actually an enviroment that people can very quickly get comfortable with.

I have had very few crashes in SXV3 (and I have a dual Xeon mobo, which is likely to cause more problems than a single cpu imo) - I think the Mixer is underused BIG TIME in SX - you could transfer a lot of the midi/audio operations to it - this way it would become more usefull - as it stands I almost wish it did not exist, it just clutters up screen real estate.

I have read a good book called SXV3 IGNITE which is a lot more fun than the manual and took me through some of the audio/workspace/marker stuff very quickly and I generally feel that SXV3 will be of much more use to me than before.

I do feel than whatever the reason a crashing program is bad news and if I had had that experience I would have moved on - QUICKLY, that was the BIG problem that caused Logic to be left a year ahead of time, I think I would have continued using it as long as the hardware I had could power it - perhaps this is what people should consider before upgrading their current version.

Just remember that it is only a MARKETING ploy by ANY company to tell you that (all of a sudden) you need 'THIS' new version of their software; for more money of course.

I think the saying 'If it aint broke, don't fix it' should be a thought that people hold close to their boosom when it comes to software up-dates!

Flipper.

[SJ_Digriz]

Just remember that it is only a MARKETING ploy by ANY company to tell you that (all of a sudden) you need 'THIS' new version of their software; for more money of course.

I think the saying 'If it aint broke, don't fix it' should be a thought that people hold close to their boosom when it comes to software up-dates!

Although I agree with much of what you posted, I don't agree with part of the above. I'll try to be brief but that will probably lead to misunderstanding, but here goes.

Most high end software in other industries cost far more than Cubendo. For example in the process management arena (which is where I work for real) it's not unusual to pay $10k+ for the server side and $5k to $10k per workstation license, per module accessed. On top of that you pay an 15-20% annual maintenance fee. btw: software in this industry is far buggier, more cheesy, has worse support and in general suffers from lack of follow through that puts anything Steinberg does look like rock solid development methodology.

I'm not saying that Cubase needs to cost that much. I am saying that if you look at your first Cubase purchase as an an initial investment and subsequent upgrade purchases as a payed maintenance plan then its not really that bad a system or that expensive to be honest.

Can't argue on the marketing hype though. But if you buy anything from anyone based on marketing literature, you have other problems hehehehe.

[christianmusicmaker]

yes, gimme a pattern oriented sequencer that works on PC!!!! should I have realized the price of software, and the amount of bugs and no-nos that come with them... before investing all in a PC.... I really cannot get the fact that NO ONE had produced a sequencer that equal the simplest of grooveboxes...

Project 5v.1 / especially v.2 out in April
http://www.project5.com
http://www.cakewalk.com/Products/Project5/default.asp

SOS review...
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/Jun03/a ... oject5.asp

Kinetic?
http://www.cakewalk.com/Products/Kinetic/default.asp

And about powerfull wave editors????? I know wavelab and sound forge, good but overly expensive, no free or affordable one that I know of, that is really good.

Acoustica?
http://www.aconas.com/

[kritikon]

There's no piano roll showing your MIDI notes in relation to say, an audio track. They are all differently sized and you won't manage to size project and key edit 1:1 while shown simultaneously at all.
With inline editing this is perfectly possible and probably the main purpose of dealing with it.

Aha!!!!

Thanks Sascha...you've given me the first real thing that has even tempted me towards SX3. Most of the other stuff seemed like cosmetics to me, and little nuggets like this seem to be overlooked and even unmentioned in the marketing. I've lost track of the number of times recently I've been trying to edit midi parts with an audio part open as reference - f**king impossible to say the least.

I don't understand why Steiny don't shout things like that from the rooftops - that's exactly the sort of functionality that interests me - not gadgets tacked on. It's a little thing, but surely a feature that the majority can use to make things easier, rather than Warping and 51 different ways to open an editor.

That's why I love KvR...real users with real insights. You can't beat hands on information over marketing crap anyday.

Thanks again Sascha....now I might seriously think about SX3 (or at least SX4 ....but I'll let you test it out first... )

[deggy]

I just wanted to say, thanks for the advice in the past Sascha. I put up a few threads about sx and the possibility of upgrading to sx3. I found your posts really helpful and i did make the decision to upgrade. Though i never owned sx2 (jumped strait from sx1), i've been using some version of cubase since 1994 and i've never before found cubase this user-friendly. The upgrade really increased my productivity and the freeze function is a godsend. yeah, there's still some bugginess with some vstis, but i've just come to accept this now. there are subtle ways to work around this.

i just had one question for everyone. which soft sampler do you all find to be the most stable in sx3? i was leaning towards kontakt 2 but my experiences with the flakyness/cpu hogging in Reaktor is a bit or a deterrent.

[Lunch Money]

There's no piano roll showing your MIDI notes in relation to say, an audio track. They are all differently sized and you won't manage to size project and key edit 1:1 while shown simultaneously at all.
With inline editing this is perfectly possible and probably the main purpose of dealing with it.

Aha!!!!

Thanks Sascha...you've given me the first real thing that has even tempted me towards SX3.

Just as a point of interest, Tracktion has always had inline editing.

Greg

[Kingston]

little nuggets like this seem to be overlooked and even unmentioned in the marketing. I've lost track of the number of times recently I've been trying to edit midi parts with an audio part open as reference - f**king impossible to say the least.

I don't understand why Steiny don't shout things like that from the rooftops - that's exactly the sort of functionality that interests me - not gadgets tacked on.)

hey cool. I didn't see it being able to help me that way. I can imagine some use for inline editing after all.

Then again I'll probably stick to jumping between linked editors just like before.

[Sascha Franck]

A professional disagree'er, eh?

No. I just know about some things making sense (not even only for me).

Why do you suddenly think it such an earthshatteringly important feature? Logic never had it, and I certainly never even thought to need it. There's always the bar ruler on top to keep track of things and piano roll will always be filled with more information anyway. And you can jump between the two faster than a blink of an eye.

Seriously, you don't seem to understand the benefits of inline MIDI editing.
Bar rulers are nice, but do you really say "Oh, this kick is at bar 65, beat 3 and-e", then open your MIDI bass part in the editor and place a note there?
I know, this is a simple operation, everybody would do it by ear. But the same applies to way more complexed operations too.
It's got nothing to do with quick editor switching either - it's about SEEING things in context. Which is impossble without this function when dealing with MIDI and audio material parallely.

And then your point about Logic never having it is even more pointless.
I can still work way faster in Logic, but I do wish for such a functionality though.
It'd be just the same as saying "oh well, Logic never had timestretching in the arrange, so why wish for it?" - once you used timestretching in the arrange you'll never want to miss it again in case you actually need it frequently.

<rant>
Anyways, one thing they left out of SX just came to my mind, and I'm really tempted to drive those 150km to Hamburg and have a nice little chainsaw massacre among the programmers ignoring it: Audio to MIDI extraction!
A) This was possible in Cubase until VST 5.x.
B) The required technical specs are there "under the hood".

Seriously, someone at Steinberg will have a big f**king bad time explaining this to me in Frankfurt/Musikmesse.
I am using this ALL THE FREAKING time in Logic to add, say, a triggered kick to a natural (recorded) one.
You can create hitpoints in your audio material.
You can make a groove template out of them.
You can even create f**king markers out of hitpoints (WHO in the world needs such a thing?!?).
So, hitponts, when extracted to one of the above mentioned things actually DO exist as MIDI data, the extracted groove template data even preserves all dynamics.
But you f**king CAN'T EXTRACT that data to a MIDI track!
I will have to use a plugin (such as KT Drumtrigger) to rerecord things. This is not exact at all and it's a lame realtime process.
I could also record kicks myself and just use the created groove template to quantize them as the original. But has anybody ever tried duplicating a full track kick via recording MIDI signals? You just don't do this as it's taking hours!

Seriously, I even have to stop typing anything more about this as it's another perfect prove for superextended uberlameness on behalf of Steinbergs programmers and UI designers. Very often they don't seem to have the slightest clue about what users want/need. I would really love using harder words, such as "brainless retards" and the likes... but as they're actually good programmers in a technical sense, all that is required is to finally fire that Dave Nicholson troll who seems to be responsible for all the GUI issues.
</rant>

[Kingston]

GO SASCHA! you're a good man.

Just as a point of interest, Tracktion has always had inline editing.

I was under the impression tracktion had nothing but inline editing. I always saw it like a big schematic laid on a table. You can zoom anywhere, at any time without jumping around in dedicated editors. Then again, I could never get it to work quite as seamlessly as it sounds.

[Sascha Franck]

i just had one question for everyone. which soft sampler do you all find to be the most stable in sx3? i was leaning towards kontakt 2 but my experiences with the flakyness/cpu hogging in Reaktor is a bit or a deterrent.

Kontakt 1.x is working pretty nice along with SX (2 and 3).
Kontakt 2 will as well (don't ask me how I know...).

[Lunch Money]

Nice rant, Sascha.

Kingston-- yes, nothing but inline editing. With audio and MIDI on the very same track if need be, for spiffy things like visual cues... move an audio clip in, edit the MIDI, move the audio back to another track.

You can even have MIDI and audio play back from the same track, but I can't imagine why anyone would.

I find it IS very seamless; however, what interferes with the seamlessness is that there isn't very extensive MIDI OR Audio editing yet... MIDI is to be overhauled not until T2, and Audio isn't due for any overhauling, so you have to do more complex operations in a program like Audition before using Tracktion's editing capabilities to fine-tune and arrange.

Then again, I don't use an audio editor very often anyhow, preferring to do everything except noise-removal and pitch-correction with plug-ins.

HOWEVER-- this isn't a Tracktion thread, so I apologize for my sad attempt to hijack and will graciously let you get back to bashing Cubase.

Greg