KVR Audio

hello1234 · Post by **hello1234** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 1:41 am

Hellbilly wrote:It's still Reason. Never really liked it and still don't.

I never could get into it either.......I just don't really get it.

The big problem is between the intial reason and up to 2.5 was a big deal. Now since 2.5......A LONG TIME AGO.......there are so many other options.......it's way behind the curve and it's now overpriced.
It's like acid 5.........is it good........sure.......can you do more with other programs for allot less...........yep.

John Vulich · Post by **John Vulich** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 1:52 am

stale bread wrote:I don't believe Reason is held to the same standard as other software instruments and host, I don't know why this is but it's obvious that if other apps had the same upgrade ratio in all of it's variables that Reason
does they wouldn't nearly be recieved as well. why the double standard?

That's because, for one reason or another, it seems to have become more of a cult than a software application.

soulkraka · Post by **soulkraka** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 1:57 am

well then I suppose I'm a member of the props cult then, as well as the FL cult, the stylus cult, the reaktor cult.......blah blah blah

what a bunch of horseshit. If Reason is so "sub-standard" then be happy your not using it. You have the advantage then right?

John Vulich · Post by **John Vulich** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 2:02 am

soulkraka wrote:well then I suppose I'm a member of the props cult then, as well as the FL cult, the stylus cult, the reaktor cult.......blah blah blah

what a bunch of horseshit. If Reason is so "sub-standard" then be happy your not using it. You have the advantage then right?

Well, there is a distinction, in my mind at least, between users and fanatics. a lot of the Reason users, particularly on the Propellerhead forum are down right irrational when it comes to any criticism of their beloved app. I don't see this consistant of a level of fanatsism with other audio products... except for maybe ProTools and Macs.

And I never said it was sub-standard but the Propellerheads do make some very odd business choices and, IMO, are falling behind when compared to other similar products.

munchkin · Post by **munchkin** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 2:04 am

eyeknow666 wrote:
Hellbilly wrote:It's still Reason. Never really liked it and still don't.
I never could get into it either.......I just don't really get it.

The big problem is between the intial reason and up to 2.5 was a big deal. Now since 2.5......A LONG TIME AGO.......there are so many other options.......it's way behind the curve and it's now overpriced.
It's like acid 5.........is it good........sure.......can you do more with other programs for allot less...........yep.

I never got into Reason but I love ACID 5. I like the way Acid works and the loop flexibility but it's made a pigs ear out of VST/i integration.

I'm happy to admit that Acid has a way to go before it competes with Sonar, Cubase, Logic, Tracktion - even eXT on the VST/i front. What has to be acknowledged is that Reason has fallen behind the other hosts just like Acid has. This doesn't mean it's crap but that it has limitations compared to other hosts.

Good music can be made on any current host imo. But musicians are also looking for and expecting VFM and extra facilities. I think Reason (and Acid) need to offer a lot more if they are going to keep up with the competition. Otherwise, even with a core of support, they will become unprofitable and then the very people who champion them will lose out as they are withdrawn from sale. Constructive criticism is good because it keeps devs on their toes, keeps them in the running and that has to be good for musicians who care about their products.

soulkraka · Post by **soulkraka** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 2:06 am

ya sorry john...Im just in a shit mood today. I know what your saying. The props board is quite scary at times, as are places like futureproducers.

JohnVulich wrote:I don't see this consistant of a level of fanatsism with other audio products... except for maybe ProTools and Macs.

very true. You should have heard the huffing and puffing and grunting that was coming from my friends when I sold my mac to buy a pc. What are people doing with their computers anyway? Admiring them from a distance? To me Reason, Stylus, Reaktor all look EXACTLY the same whether Im on a mac or PC. I just get more mileage from a PC....simple choice in my book.

John Vulich · Post by **John Vulich** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 2:06 am

munchkin wrote:Good music can be made on any current host imo. But musicians are also looking for and expecting VFM and extra facilities. I think Reason (and Acid) need to offer a lot more if they are going to keep up with the competition. Otherwise, even with a core of support, they will become unprofitable and then the very people who champion them will lose out as they are withdrawn from sale. Constructive criticism is good because it keeps devs on their toes, keeps them in the running and that has to be good for musicians who care about their products.

Well said.

quantize · Post by **quantize** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 2:10 am

thats a complete cliche and a load of old toss..

if anything, the fact that rewire is even supported in digidesign apps, that misnomer is less true everyday..i know heaps of 'professionals' (dont really believe in that word myself) who are using Reason on a daily basis..

it would be like saying you cant get professional results from Fruity Loops..its bullshit

John Vulich · Post by **John Vulich** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 2:14 am

soulkraka wrote:ya sorry john...Im just in a shit mood today. I know what your saying. The props board is quite scary at times, as are places like futureproducers.

No problems. I quite like the app myself but it still could use some minor improvements. I'm not one of these guys that thinks it needs VST/VSTi support or audio recording. It's just little things like a lack of spline based automation. The need for some seperate LFO/Modulation device so that you don't have to clutter your interface by using a synth just to get an extra LFO. And at least the ability to use sound files in the sequencer track. You know minor thing that every other audio app already has.

soulkraka · Post by **soulkraka** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 2:16 am

....and in-house slicing.

John Vulich · Post by **John Vulich** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 2:17 am

quantize wrote:thats a complete cliche and a load of old toss..

if anything, the fact that rewire is even supported in digidesign apps, that misnomer is less true everyday..i know heaps of 'professionals' (dont really believe in that word myself) who are using Reason on a daily basis..

it would be like saying you cant get professional results from Fruity Loops..its bullshit

Who's remarks are you commenting about?

quantize · Post by **quantize** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 2:22 am

JohnVulich wrote:
quantize wrote:thats a complete cliche and a load of old toss..

if anything, the fact that rewire is even supported in digidesign apps, that misnomer is less true everyday..i know heaps of 'professionals' (dont really believe in that word myself) who are using Reason on a daily basis..

it would be like saying you cant get professional results from Fruity Loops..its bullshit
Who's remarks are you commenting about?

sorry!..Stale Breads' q re the regard in which Reason is held..

wow things move *really* fast here..must be a whole bunch of us losers typing furiously all at the same time..

cool

just joking gents

stale bread · Post by **stale bread** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 2:37 am

what part of what I said was a "load of toss" lol, I never said Reason wasn't proffessional. what are you talking about. I use and like reason, what I said is that it's not held to the same standard as other apps, and I would say the same for acid that munchskin spoke about, ie: acids vsti implementation leaves much to be desired but if you go through the majority of the post on much forums you'd think that ableton lives vsti implementation is worse than acids, people harp on Live like adding vsti was the worse thing, yet when it comes to acid they are almost forgiving of it like its not a big deal. reason suffers from this kind of thing in greater propensity (don't know if I spelled that right)

munchkin · Post by **munchkin** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 2:38 am

quantize wrote:thats a complete cliche and a load of old toss..

if anything, the fact that rewire is even supported in digidesign apps, that misnomer is less true everyday..i know heaps of 'professionals' (dont really believe in that word myself) who are using Reason on a daily basis..

it would be like saying you cant get professional results from Fruity Loops..its bullshit

I don't think it's about so-called 'professionals' vs everyone else. The whole concept of the 'professional' musician has been created by the music business to justify their control over musicians, media and the instruments we use.

Whether or not 'pro' musicians (you're falling into your own trap here) use Reason there is still a lot that could be developed in Reason to make it more attractive to other musicians.

I use Sonar 4, Live 4, Max/MSP, eXT as well as ACID. Rewire is a poor substitute for VST/i integration imo. Why not have the best of all worlds in one app? Like it or not that's the way host development is heading. If Reason gets left behind this might effect its survival.

bliss000 · Post by **bliss000** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 2:53 am

I use Sonar 4, Live 4, Max/MSP, eXT as well as ACID. Rewire is a poor substitute for VST/i integration imo. Why not have the best of all worlds in one app? Like it or not that's the way host development is heading. If Reason gets left behind this might effect its survival.

The problem with VST's, they are all separate programs with little connectivity between them. Reason is almost a fully blown modular synth!

Reason 3.0 demo impressions