Reason 3.0 demo impressions

[quantize]

I don't think it's about so-called 'professionals' vs everyone else. The whole concept of the 'professional' musician has been created by the music business to justify their control over musicians, media and the instruments we use.

Whether or not 'pro' musicians (you're falling into your own trap here) use Reason there is still a lot that could be developed in Reason to make it more attractive to other musicians.

I use Sonar 4, Live 4, Max/MSP, eXT as well as ACID. Rewire is a poor substitute for VST/i integration imo. Why not have the best of all worlds in one app? Like it or not that's the way host development is heading. If Reason gets left behind this might effect its survival.

i wasn't suggesting anything like that and don't bother dwelling on the '*us* vs *them* corporate conspiracy music business control theories'....im just saying...*even* folks with plenty of dosh to plonk on protools systems use Reason...

there's a lot to be said for it..its cross-platform, easy to integrate and make entirre peices of music with..Speaking personally i use macs and pc's...so whilst im curious about a lot of pc or mac only software, im mainly interested in anyone who develops with continuity in mind , without getting into format or platform wars..ironically..Reason with its unique formats at least does this..(despite the irritation of the locked refill format)

I cant use Sonar or FL songs on my mac...im not interested in the rarified one-eyed atmosphere that carries on with plaftorm based ranting..its all noise..just use it..dont like Reason..hey stay ignorant..and continue to believe i am..suits me fine..

[munchkin]

I don't think it's about so-called 'professionals' vs everyone else. The whole concept of the 'professional' musician has been created by the music business to justify their control over musicians, media and the instruments we use.

Whether or not 'pro' musicians (you're falling into your own trap here) use Reason there is still a lot that could be developed in Reason to make it more attractive to other musicians.

I use Sonar 4, Live 4, Max/MSP, eXT as well as ACID. Rewire is a poor substitute for VST/i integration imo. Why not have the best of all worlds in one app? Like it or not that's the way host development is heading. If Reason gets left behind this might effect its survival.

i wasn't suggesting anything like that and don't bother dwelling on the '*us* vs *them* corporate conspiracy music business control theories'....im just saying...*even* folks with plenty of dosh to plonk on protools systems use Reason...

there's a lot to be said for it..its cross-platform, easy to integrate and make entirre peices of music with..Speaking personally i use macs and pc's...so whilst im curious about a lot of pc or mac only software, im mainly interested in anyone who develops with continuity in mind , without getting into format or platform wars..ironically..Reason with its unique formats at least does this..(despite the irritation of the locked refill format)

I cant use Sonar or FL songs on my mac...im not interested in the rarified one-eyed atmosphere that carries on with plaftorm based ranting..its all noise..just use it..dont like Reason..hey stay ignorant..and continue to believe i am..suits me fine..

I don't know you and I'm not judging you. I'm making an opinion about Reason not about you.

The music business isn't a conspiricy either - it's quite blatant about exploiting musicians and dismissing others who are equally good/bad.

There are some nice things about Reason but that doesn't mean the end of the story otherwise it wouldn't have been developed past version one. I suppose the reason I'd like to see more in Reason is because it has some great facilities and would be more attractive if, like Live 4 (which is cross platform), it had VST/i.

[quantize]

I don't know you and I'm not judging you. I'm making an opinion about Reason not about you.

The music business isn't a conspiricy either - it's quite blatant about exploiting musicians and dismissing others who are equally good/bad.

There are some nice things about Reason but that doesn't mean the end of the story otherwise it wouldn't have been developed past version one. I suppose the reason I'd like to see more in Reason is because it has some great facilities and would be more attractive if, like Live 4 (which is cross platform), it had VST/i.

Yeh ok, np i never thought your were doing anything else...thanks for the music industry exploitation 101 class, but im just not interested...i agree with you certainly, but i just dont believe going on a about it makes a toss of difference to the universe..i dont know anyone who hasn't been burnt..but the smart ones always persist and never dwell on it..im trying to do that same..

as for your comment on Reason, i think anyone who wants VST or Audio in the app, as has been repeated numerous times, just does not get the concept from the ground up..its meant to be self contained and reliable, which is precisely what it is..use something else..like Live (since SX got warp audio i have ot slightest interest in it, but i understand why some like it)

[pannewb]

I like Reason very much, although I do agree that you can get very much the same quality and versatility of sounds by layering synths like Synth1, imposcar and other free or low cost synths. Spline LFO editing would be much appreciated (CV seems to be to complicated to be functional). I use Dr Rex a lot because of some of the great drum loops that coem with it. I am more of a casual user than a hardcore fan of the software.

BUT, I have one huge beef with Reason that stopped the thought of buying 3.0 in its tracks. EVERY dam (you know , Hoover dam) time I change one niggling little detail in anyone of the things on the rack in ReWire mode, I have to click out of the screen and back in for it to change. To illustrate my meaning...

<Cubase SX playing through headphones>
Bwaaaaaaaaa,Bwa,BweeBwee....
<My thoughts>
Need to change the motion index on Malstrom 2..
<What the evil monkey in my closet hears>
Click,ClickDRAGGG,Click,Click
<Cubase>
Bwawaaaaaaa,Bwhw,BwewBwew...
<A few more minutes of music, headphones, and triple clicking>
<What Evil Monkey Hears>
Dammit! If I have to click on more time to change the amp envelope by three, I'm going to have to go fiorkin' learn C++ and fix it myself!

You see my point?

[munchkin]

I don't know you and I'm not judging you. I'm making an opinion about Reason not about you.

The music business isn't a conspiricy either - it's quite blatant about exploiting musicians and dismissing others who are equally good/bad.

There are some nice things about Reason but that doesn't mean the end of the story otherwise it wouldn't have been developed past version one. I suppose the reason I'd like to see more in Reason is because it has some great facilities and would be more attractive if, like Live 4 (which is cross platform), it had VST/i.

Yeh ok, np i never thought your were doing anything else...thanks for the music industry exploitation 101 class, but im just not interested...i agree with you certainly, but i just dont believe going on a about it makes a toss of difference to the universe..i dont know anyone who hasn't been burnt..but the smart ones always persist and never dwell on it..im trying to do that same..

as for your comment on Reason, i think anyone who wants VST or Audio in the app, as has been repeated numerous times, just does not get the concept from the ground up..its meant to be self contained and reliable, which is precisely what it is..use something else..like Live (since SX got warp audio i have ot slightest interest in it, but i understand why some like it)

I'm not trying to teach you anything. I'm stating my opinion. The way musicians are treated does make a difference to whether or not musicians carry on making music. I'm disagreeing with your point of view not trying to convert you to mine.

The whole point of Reason can't be that it's self contained because it rewires to other hosts and that isn't without its problems.

[CskaTorpedo]

I'd say I am pretty unbiased on this topic, I started out as a reason user (1.0) and upgraded to 2.5 when it was available.

That said reason always had a great workflow once I learned all the little doohickeys and how they worked.

I always used reason the way most people use modular synthesis. Plugging lots of shit into the holes and seeing what happened.

But all that changed once I bought live, I remember playing my first VSTi, I think it was some demo version or a free synth (maybe Amazon) and just thinking "nothing in reason sounds like this".

I went through an ANTI reason phase until one day I was just playing around with rewire and live, all of a sudden I was back in my old reason workflow, and everything was going much more quickly programming the drums in redrum.

So my assesment of reason is that it's samples and synths don't sound as good as the VSTis I own, but can still assist in sketching out midi drum information.

The real question is, does anyone wanna pay the extravagant price of reason for a midi sketch pad, when powerful tools like Live, and older versions of cubase are in comparable ranges of price.

[John Vulich]

wow things move *really* fast here..must be a whole bunch of us losers typing furiously all at the same time..

cool

just joking gents

Welcome to the club.

[braj]

I'm fairly excited about 3.0, though I won't likely upgrade soon because I'm poor and it isn't the highest priority. But there is one thing I really think Props should make: I'll call it 'ReCorder'. Simply, an audio host for Reason. Something that will integrate seamlessly, and retain the stability Reason is famous for. This would be all many people would need in a DAW. And it would make Reason a better value.

Personally, I think something like that should have been in 3.0. I'd be more inclined to upgrade myself.

[drez]

So many people are going on and on about how the Combinator will facilitate the creation of amazing all new sounds. I just don't get their logic. I can only assume that these folks are "preset whores" that don't do any of their own programming. All it seems to do is allow you to organize sound modules more effectively and have extra modulation control over parameters that don't have CV inputs. But it's still the same sounds.

IMHO, if you are using reason to its potential, it is almost impossible to be a preset whore. I mean, you can take a factory preset in any synth and run it through several different routings that nobody else has done and create a sound that nobody else has.

I say it all the time...its all about the routing.

[braj]

I'm fairly excited about 3.0, though I won't likely upgrade soon because I'm poor and it isn't the highest priority. But there is one thing I really think Props should make: I'll call it 'ReCorder'. Simply, an audio host for Reason. Something that will integrate seamlessly, and retain the stability Reason is famous for. This would be all many people would need in a DAW. And it would make Reason a better value.

Personally, I think something like that should have been in 3.0. I'd be more inclined to upgrade myself.

Wow, what a great idea! What features should be included?

• Integrate files with Reason projects. That's one thing people hate about ReWire, even when it works well ie. having to open two projects and hoping everything works. Make it so you open only one file.

• Allow tempo changes to be automated.
* Spline-based automation for Reason tracks.
• Master mixer that allows you to assign tracks to any Reason mixer track, no matter where the submixer the fader is originally assigned is located.
• Lots of cool stuff I don't have time to dream up right now. My toddler is playing with my feet and I have to make him stop. Bye!

[John Vulich]

Wow, what a great idea! What features should be included?

• Integrate files with Reason projects. That's one thing people hate about ReWire, even when it works well ie. having to open two projects and hoping everything works. Make it so you open only one file.

• Allow tempo changes to be automated.
* Spline-based automation for Reason tracks.
• Master mixer that allows you to assign tracks to any Reason mixer track, no matter where the submixer the fader is originally assigned is located.
• Lots of cool stuff I don't have time to dream up right now. My toddler is playing with my feet and I have to make him stop. Bye!

Funny, you just described every other Sequencer/Audio/Host/DAW on the planet.

[Sicklecell666]

Loaded up the demo & couldn't believe how many instruments I was able to run..



Sounded pretty nice to my ears, but everyone knows my hearing's fux0red, so..

[soulkraka]

thats exactly why I use it(rewired into FL). I can just keep adding stuff in right brain mode without having to stop and bounce stuff. Thats the workflow I need...Reasons the app that achieves it.

[braj]

Wow, what a great idea! What features should be included?

• Integrate files with Reason projects. That's one thing people hate about ReWire, even when it works well ie. having to open two projects and hoping everything works. Make it so you open only one file.

• Allow tempo changes to be automated.
* Spline-based automation for Reason tracks.
• Master mixer that allows you to assign tracks to any Reason mixer track, no matter where the submixer the fader is originally assigned is located.
• Lots of cool stuff I don't have time to dream up right now. My toddler is playing with my feet and I have to make him stop. Bye!

Funny, you just described every other Sequencer/Audio/Host/DAW on the planet.

Not really, the key item I mentioned was allowing Reason projects to be integrated, so you don't need to keep track of two sets of files. And if it had the express purpose of only adding audio capabilities to Reason, it would likely be much more streamlined and efficient. There wouldn't be any question of it's ReWire integration, because it could be seamless. You could use WAVs from Refills in an audio environment. There seems to be lots of stuff Props could do that no one else could regarding seamless integration. I personally would love this for my laptop, since it would likely be more efficient than anything else I own.

Anyway, just a thought. Audio is the biggest hole to fill regarding Reason.

[headquest]

It strikes me as strange that so often the people who criticise Reason seem to misunderstand what it is and compare it against full-0on sequencing hosts.

None of the hosts I have used on PC come with bundled instruments that really compare with Reason. The instruments in Cubase are bland (the last time I checked), in Sonar you get a couple of OK ones, in Tracktion you get a couple of small MDA jobs, in FL you get a few to start you off but have to pay extra if you want decent ones (and check the CPU on Sytrus - holy cow ), in Ableton you get very little unless you pay a lot more for the lukewarm Operator...

Reason doesn't do a lot of what these hosts do, and nor does it claim to... but it is a great instrument, and as a keyboard player it's probably the only one I would trust to take on stage right now.

Alongside that, though, Reason is the only program where I can be confident of producing a full-blown MIDI sequenced track without ever having to bounce anything and without needing to keep one eye on the CPU meter all the time. Frankly, the engineering at that level is astonishing, and leaves every other piece of software I know standing out in the cold...

When you look at Reason as an instrument you can begin to understand that the Combinator is a fantastic tool to have on stage for loading up complex instrument patches with just one click. The new browser, too, is a godsend in this respect.

You can't say any of this is possible in Cubase, Tracktion or Live, because they are totally different applications. Nor do I really think that you could perform using a bunch of (expensive) VST instruments with the same confidence in system stability and with the same ease of use and instant preset recall.

So I would say, stop trying to compare Reason with your sequencer and look at it for what it is - a great sounding instrument that you can really rely on. The fact that it has a sequencer built on doesn't make it a replacement for your main host. My keyboard has a sequencer on it too (but dosn't record audio or host VSTs ), and Reason 3.0 is an instrument just the same - it's that simple.