KVR Audio

Lunatique · Post by **Lunatique** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 8:39 am

I can't even get the damn demo to run. It says "Unknown exception."

braj · Post by **braj** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 8:41 am

Good post Headquest. I totally agree, but also actually enjoy the sequencer in Reason for what it's worth. If I had to fire up a host for it when it was all I wanted to use, then it would be far less useful. Especially on a system that isn't exactly the fastest around.

How much is the upgrade again

elv · Post by **elv** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 9:07 am

headquest wrote:It strikes me as strange that so often the people who criticise Reason seem to misunderstand what it is and compare it against full-0on sequencing hosts.

None of the hosts I have used on PC come with bundled instruments that really compare with Reason. The instruments in Cubase are bland (the last time I checked), in Sonar you get a couple of OK ones, in Tracktion you get a couple of small MDA jobs, in FL you get a few to start you off but have to pay extra if you want decent ones (and check the CPU on Sytrus - holy cow ), in Ableton you get very little unless you pay a lot more for the lukewarm Operator...

As a former owner of Reason I have feeling for it but lets face it....most of the Reason synth are a litle on the crappy side...
Subtracktor is just horrible..sure you can layer it up to a sampler, Malström or another sub...but then again you can do the same with all/most host.
The only synth in Reason that really exitects me personally is Malström, and I do love that synth(o good when will some make a vst like it)

In this comprasion you also forgot Orion wich has one of the best synth bundled in any music app.
Also P5 has a decent synths ........

But like you are telling peopla about Reason you seem to be missing the point of VST host.

CskaTorpedo · Post by **CskaTorpedo** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 9:29 am

headquest wrote:So I would say, stop trying to compare Reason with your sequencer and look at it for what it is - a great sounding instrument...

I don't think reasons instruments sound better than ANY commercial VST.

I know we can all make cases for your favorite workhorse, but when it comes down to it as a musician I need quality above "ease of use" and the fact that it sounds less like a toy now doesn't make me want to upgrade any futher, quality of sound isn't a feature you should have to buy an upgrade to, it's something that should be fixed before selling it in the first place.

braj · Post by **braj** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 9:38 am

I personally like the sound of Reason, I'm no pro though and I do thing there are much better sounding VSTis out but still, it is quite usable IMO. As for layering VSTis in other hosts, the CPU hit would usually be much more than doing something comparable in Reason. And Combinator now makes doing this in Reason much easier than doing the same with VSTis.

Reason isn't the end all solution for everything, but it is a good starting point.

I wish Orion was cross platform. It looks interesting. But I don't believe it has the flexible routing stuff that Reason does. But I really like it's drum sequencers. Easy as pie to get nice results IMO.

RawTheory · Post by **RawTheory** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 10:13 am

I've been using Reason rewired to Ableton live and as im starting to understand the specific type of workflow i need out of the programs, very exciting possibilites are making themselves known. Yes, even free VSTi's can sound a load louder and crisper then what can be made in Reason, but what im becoming ever more addicted to is the potential Reason gives for raw sound creation. Personally a lot of the free VSTi synth sounds i've heard have very distinctive "Synthy" sounds that I'm just not into. I love the ability to treat every Reason synth or sample sound like a piece of clay that i can keep layering interesting elements onto indefinitly. Not just layering seperate sounds together but actually using creative, experimental routing techniques to transform the very nature of very element independently. Now, i dont know how i'd feel if i had reason and nothing else. Although for a while i did, didn't know any better, and loved it. But partnering up Reason with a dynamic host like Ableton Live and effecting each unique instrument with quality effects plugins like the Waves Gold plugins has lead me to some intensely significant production sessions.
Just my two cents.

Jbravo · Post by **Jbravo** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 10:59 am

headquest wrote:look at it for what it is - a great sounding instrument that you can really rely on. The fact that it has a sequencer built on doesn't make it a replacement for your main host.

but it's not intended to be just an instrument. That's like saying "my computer works great as a doorstop which is what I need - therefore the fact that it doesn't boot is irrelevant" - which wouldn't automatically make it a great computer. I don't have an axe to grind about Reason, but I think it needs to be judged on what it is rather than what it can be used for.

kmonkey · Post by **kmonkey** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 11:01 am

Ok but for what use is putting more or more Subtractors inside since they are ttttteeerible. Cmon. Use that free Superwave P8. Listen this....ok that is a free synth. You can take five Subtractor but they will not sound as one P8.

Malstrom has some cool features. But for what use is this? Same Oscilators (as i can hear and this goes to standard sine,saw etc.)

What you get? Nothing. Just bounch of bad sounding synths. Spare me that things about lack of programming Reason synths. I can take one P8 and i can create that stupid simple hoover pad in a minute and it will sound like nothing in Reason. No mather how many unison you use....

And in top of this, all that from Combinator hype i can do in 2.5 but with more pain in automation.

I would still change Reason for just one impOSCAR.

Dunno. To me Synths are important for what i do. And that inside Reason are realy realy bad...

soulkraka · Post by **soulkraka** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 11:02 am

Jbravo wrote:
headquest wrote:look at it for what it is - a great sounding instrument that you can really rely on. The fact that it has a sequencer built on doesn't make it a replacement for your main host.
but it's not intended to be just an instrument.

Thats what the Props themselves say, they call it an instrument. Headquest uses it as one and so do I...so there ya have it.

Hovmod · Post by **Hovmod** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 11:06 am

kmonkey wrote:And in top of this, all that from Combinator hype i can do in 2.5 but with more pain in automation.

I'm not gonna debate taste in synths or preferences in workflow, this is all too silly. However, I'll gladly help weed out lies and bullshit. You can NOT do everything in 2.5 that the combinator lets you do. You can't. Nope. That's wrong. You can do things with the Combinator that was previously impossible.

Jbravo · Post by **Jbravo** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 11:06 am

soulkraka wrote:
Jbravo wrote:
headquest wrote:look at it for what it is - a great sounding instrument that you can really rely on. The fact that it has a sequencer built on doesn't make it a replacement for your main host.
but it's not intended to be just an instrument.
Thats what the Props themselves say, they call it an instrument. Headquest uses it as one and so do I...so there ya have it.

then it's a cop-out and this is being discussed in completely the wrong forum!

Hovmod · Post by **Hovmod** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 11:09 am

soulkraka wrote:Thats what the Props themselves say, they call it an instrument.

Uhm. They actually call it "Stand-alone music station software" on my box. I wish they didn't, but they do...

diverdee · Post by **diverdee** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 11:53 am

I used to dis reason (tried it & wasn't impressed)then i 'grokked' it one day at my bro's - now i've bought his copy (actually I still haven't fully paid the little shit 4 it

) & it's my main workhorse - i treat it like a workstation & the new functionality in version 3 will be very useful for me. It rewires into tracktion sweet & i can use other synths if i want - but i tend to try & stick with reason's gear - like the cv routing etc. - fun to play with when i'm stoned. Different strokes 4 different folks isn't it? No use dissing a next mans tools - i've tried other hosts & instruments etc. e.g. orion - just couldn't get anything done with it - but i know other people achieve great results with it fruity - just made no sense to me (other than as a tool for triggering simple drum patterns), but i've got a friend making great music with it. So I reckon i'll have to transfer, register & upgrade - why not?

braj · Post by **braj** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 12:01 pm

diverdee wrote: fun to play with when i'm stoned.

Now, isn't that really what it's all about

soulkraka · Post by **soulkraka** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 12:08 pm

Jbravo

two things:

1. Computer Music Jan05 page 14 "Reason is a musical instrument..." Ernst Nathorst-Boos

2. I didnt start this thread.

anyways, this is a lame point to argue. I probably shouldnt even be doing it. The title of this thread is "Reason 3.0 demo impressions". What happened? Where did we go wrong? Well, look at exactly half way down PAGE ONE at hellbillys post. Its amazing we cant keep shit on topic around here for even half a page.

For better or worse Reason seems to be a very controversial app around these parts.