logic pc :: fight or switch?

[porpoise]

HI

As an ex-Logic user I would say that SX will leave you feeling how streamlined and compact a working enviroment Logic was/is.

I like SX but it has become a sprawling and somewhat cluttered enviroment - no doubt trying to please so many users.

Tracktion for me is the obvious host to look at - I hope that T2 makes the midi side of things a bit easier to access as this is the only shortcoming that IMO it struggles in.

Lots of people go to samplitude looking for something similar to Logic, I found it had some very interesting ideas but ultimately like SX is overcomplicated - but this is IMO.

Try T2 when it comes out!!

Porpoise.

[egbert]

Hi Soultrane,

I am in the same boat as you and some of the other posters in that I can use Logic in my sleep and still work with it a lot. I am gradually spending more time in SX 3.01 though.

I still prefer the compactness of the Logic mixer, the midi editing and some of the flexible mixer routing options (Auxes and Buses) - eg I can put a delay on one bus and a reverb on another and with an Aux object send some of the the output of the delay to the reverb - try that in Cubase.

The PDC, plugin multiouts, the sidechaining with third party compressors, the Freeze/offline bounce and some of the other features like timestretching and warping are what make me bother with SX.

If I was using the UAD-1 I would definitely want PDC happening so I guess you need to get acquainted with another host.

I hope Samplitude becomes a worthy successor to Logic or perhaps hell will freeze over and we will see another Logic on PC - I would expect this shortly after the Newton is reissued

[ericj23]

I still prefer the compactness of the Logic mixer, the midi editing and some of the flexible mixer routing options (Auxes and Buses) - eg I can put a delay on one bus and a reverb on another and with an Aux object send some of the the output of the delay to the reverb - try that in Cubase.

that is no problem at all in cubase

try routing midi from an instrument or to an fx in logic

[Ocean Zen]

If you like Logic, then I'd recomend sticking with it.

I bought a Mac about 6 months ago, to switch from Logic 5 PC to Logic Pro 6 and I love it. In my opinion it has only improved and it runs very smoothly on the Mac Platform (as you'd imagine)

Plus Space Designer is an amazing Reverb.

[egbert]

that is no problem at all in cubase

OK true - an FX Bus can't send to another FX bus (WTF not?) - only to an output BUT you could put the delay in a Group and Send from that Delay Group to the verb - you just need to put that Delay Group last in the case where you wish to send to it from the earlier groups in the list.

As far as midi routing - yep sure there are plenty of deficiencies in Logic - the integration with EXS24 etc is pretty handy though. As is the ability to change a channel or a bus from mono to stereo or vice versa at any stage.

Another thing: Logic does not waste CPU cycles on plugins with no audio going through them. If you have a lot of tracks running and some have parts play only intermittently -(eg in the chorus) then those plugins chew CPU only when the audio plays. The CPU meter shows zero with the transport stationary. Anyway, this debate is moot - Logic PC is what it is - useful but not going anywhere.

Eg

[soultrane]

hi ocean zen;

can u give me some ideas on how much u paid to switch to mac, and how your performance is?

a) did emagic/apple give u any kind of crossgrade / upgrade discount? are they still offering a discount?

b) what kind of mac did u get? what kind of pc did u have b4 jumping ship?

i wonder how does the performance of the new g5's compare to my pc (p4, 2.4 ghz w. 1024 ram...)

[braj]

hi ocean zen;

can u give me some ideas on how much u paid to switch to mac, and how your performance is?

a) did emagic/apple give u any kind of crossgrade / upgrade discount? are they still offering a discount?

b) what kind of mac did u get? what kind of pc did u have b4 jumping ship?

i wonder how does the performance of the new g5's compare to my pc (p4, 2.4 ghz w. 1024 ram...)

Running Logic 7, there's no comparison

Only thing with a Mac is you don't have anywhere as many free plugs.

[kritikon]

that is no problem at all in cubase

Hmmmm....you sure can do it, but it is one of the most awkward half-assed ways of doing it that I've ever had the misfortune of seeing. SX still does not have properly routable FX channels or groups...VST5.1 used to, then Steinberg dumped it with SX.

It is aspects like the routing that have taken SX further and further away from the way you'd mix with a real desk....and the way you do it with even a modest 8-buss a desk is a helluvalot more flexible and quicker than in SX. At least you can still do it within SX, but it really is not a good way. In any decent mixer, you can route any buss to any buss...you can route any send to any buss, channel or group. You can send sends to sends in any order you want, and to themselves if that's your thing. SX is a loooooooooooooooooooooooooong way off doing that gracefully. (Not that I like Logic either....personally I thought it was unfathomable )

I really do like most of what SX does, but it seems to have taken a completely different direction than the VST series was heading in. Used to be new versions of Cubase increased functionality and ease of use/flexibility.
Now, new versions of SX seem to simply become longer-winded with the occasional added functionality, but no extra ease-of-use.


There's a definite difference of opinion on SX (and probably any host). There are those that grew up with s/w hosts, so naturally they accept both the limitations and the attractions as a norm. They probably don't actually realise what extra things could be done to make a host instantly more user-friendly in the mixer department.
Then there are those that grew up with h/w mixers and sequencers etc. To us, the audio and sequencing side of things are a f**king marvel - I love 'em. But the mixer side of things is terrible. If you've not yet used a large mixer, you don't realise how incredibly flexible they are - route anything to anything, period. The possibilities are far greater than in s/w. Did you know you can route an ordinary channel to another via the inserts or the direct out? Within s/w you have to do it via groups only. You could reroute a send return so that it goes to anywhere, but also split it to another send or ordinary channel. Within SX the FX returns only go to an FX return, which can't go to other channels or groups. Unless you do it the real tedious way via group after group after group.
And don't get me on about reorganising the order of inserts/sends All you do in a mixer is swap the return cables to whatever order you want and to where you want. Within SX you have to save every single patch, unload, reload in the right order, then reload every patch. And do that every single time you got it wrong.

All I can do is hope that one day SX will become a truly flexible audio router...which it most definitely is not yet. It's a great audio sequencer, arranger, midi sequencer and sound tool though.

[Notron User]

hi ocean zen;

a) did emagic/apple give u any kind of crossgrade / upgrade discount? are they still offering a discount?

For hardware you mean? I think thats over.

The upgrade from Logic 5 pro to Logic 7 costs around $260-$300 to get all the yummy new plugs.

[Andywanders]

Sorry for the probable hijack, but how's audio editing in logic, compared to say, tracktion?

I have both and I would definitely say Logic is way better...

BUT...

I would rather use Soundforge (which won't open on my system from within Tracktion). It really depends on what I'm doing to the wave. However, I would never use T for audio editing.

[Sascha Franck]

Personally (as a Logic user) I've spent quite some time with SX now (needed to do so anways due to my job as a teacher at the local conservatory).
FWIW, I've also spent a few hours inside Tracktion.

My personal verdict is: There's NOTHING coming even halfway close to the arrange/MIDI editing features of Logic. There's no visual control about quantizing in SX. There's no velocity tool. There's no hyperdraw. You can't record VST(i) parameters as MIDI parts (only as track automation). There's no floating editor windows (a true godsend in Logic). There's not even a reliably working solo function in SX (would you happen to believe that?). There's no audio to score/groove function in SX, so forget about having your audio kick extracted as a MIDI track to be retruggered. There's no dynamic plugin handling (open a plugin in SX and CPU useage will go up, in Logic it'll only do so if you actually send something through it).
And there's TONS of other things missing badly too (such as a user configurable mixer, only some jelly beanish looking piece of shit).

On the other hand, technically Cubase is pretty much ahead of Logic. Time stretching in the arrange is VERY fast and the results are pretty much useable too. There's close to no plugin incompatibility problems either. There's full PDC. There's freeze (which is working quite nicely in SX 3) and offline bounce. There's better project management.

My verdict:
The features that actually ARE there in Logic/PC are working. It just misses quite a few features and isn't compatible with some plugins.
A lot of the features (even rather basic ones, such as soloing something) that you'd expect from SX aren't working properly (if at all).
In the end, for me it comes down to what I need. Usually that is fast editing and arranging. Logic (even 5.5.1/PC) is still perfect for such things.
If I were more into pure audio recording, handling and mixing I'd probably use SX quite a bit more, but I ain't. For what I'm doing it sucks in a lot of ways (well, at least there's "relative snap" now...).
I do however agree that full PDC might be an important thing (I actually enjoyed SIR under SX allready, impossible with Logic).

I wouldn't happen to know about possible Sonar or Samplitude quirks, still need to try out the demos.

OH, btw, if you want, hm... say, Logic 5.8, it might be a good idea to get EnergyXT in addition. Will add better plugin compatibility (especially in case of Kontakt and a few others constantly producing note hangers) and full MIDI implementation.

Personally, I will buy a Mac one day, but right now it's not the best time, given the pretty much critical state of Logic 7 (and Logic 6 won't add all that much to your arsenal but Space Designer and offline bounce).

[jens]

Really like the looping in Tracktion plus it's got
realtime Time-stretching and pitch shifting something that could only be done destructively in logic.

Plus with ReWire 2.0 Support can do the Rex thing in Reason or Reason adapted that comes free with some sound cards.

The time-stretch in Tracktion is shit. Don't tell anyone interested in T otherwise, or they may think there are other issues lurking about. That's T's one major weakness IMO. It's utterly useless, unless you are looking to mangle a WAV.

it's beyond shit. it creates a whole new genre on it's own, it's THAT bad.

put it this way, if you thought logic's time machine was bad..............

the one who invented the word 'bad' was thinking about T's timestretch when he did.

[jens]

what is it with all those insomniac germans anyway?

[splattabreakz]

blah

[ikke]

When will the new version of Tracktion hit the market?