KVR Audio

Funkasizer · Post by **Funkasizer** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 3:16 pm

I felt like starting a discussion, so here it comes:

I was just fooling around with the Reason 3 demo (trying to decide whether to upgrade or sell my Reason 1 and 2 licenses) when it occurred to me that in a perverse way, the new combinator instrument reveals or even confirms the weakness of Reason, which is the thin sound of its instruments. Take for instance the "basic polysynth" patch in the Combinator Synth Poly folder. This patch gives a very nice and fat sound that you could also get out of a single instance of a Minimonsta or even a Minimoog V. However, to get this sound out of Reason, you need five (!) Subtractors, two delays, a reverb, a compressor, and finally a mixer to get it all mingled. Imagine having to program this from scratch!! Subtractive synthesis via the addition of synth modules and effects

Feel much better now. Anyone interested in purchasing Reason 2.5 for a Reasonable price?

Stupid American Pig · Post by **Stupid American Pig** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 3:27 pm

well to be fair reason is about 5 years old now so the legacy synths included maybe arent up to par with todays standards. Not to mention reason is way less CPU hungry than minimonsta. It is what it is, I am slightly dissappointed by the lack of new sound genereators, but I still got the upgrade, since I dont really use many synths anyway, and I like the orkester bank and nnxt...

Meffy · Post by **Meffy** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 3:30 pm

Seems to me that you may be mistaking a strength for a weakness.

What's your objection to using five Subtractors? They're so CPU-efficient that you can throw them at a sound design puzzle with very little penalty. You have as many as you want. Go ahead, splurge a little.

And of course you don't have to program it from scratch. Reason modules are bigger chunks of functionality (I'm a cee-ment mixer bay-bee, a skunky chunk of burnin' func) than the fine-grained elements of Reaktor. Easier to lash up, though not as infinitely flexible. So when you do want to make your own combis, it's not really that intimidating. Reading a good book or following the tips and tricks on the Props forum can help a lot here -- all those "try this" ideas can be packaged for easier re-use now, just as requested by a lot of users.

Guess my question is "where's the problem?" Unless, of course, Reason doesn't work the way you like. If that's the case, definitely move on to software that meshes with you well. :-)

Meffy

Sicklecell666 · Post by **Sicklecell666** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 3:32 pm

3.5 people..remember your history.

Meffy · Post by **Meffy** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 3:35 pm

"3.5" is already a watchword. =^_^=

Meffy
those who DO remember history are doomed to watch others repeat it

kodama · Post by **kodama** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 3:38 pm

No, there is no excuse for taking sooooo long and producing no new instruments. Not even upgrading the Subtractor for all these years. Yep, I hocked mine not long ago.

deep · Post by **deep** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 3:44 pm

No matter how much you love Reason, You cannot deny having to do *everything* five times (or even more!) isn't a pain in the ass!

Funkasizer · Post by **Funkasizer** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 3:52 pm

Meffy wrote:What's your objection to using five Subtractors? They're so CPU-efficient that you can throw them at a sound design puzzle with very little penalty. You have as many as you want. Go ahead, splurge a little.

I agree that CPU usage is low even if you use a whole bunch of Subtractors combined. The objection I have is that sound synthesis is not as obvious anymore than the tweaking of one synth. To use your own words, it becomes a puzzle.

As to the sample modules, I have tried loading some fat synth samples I generated with Minimoog V, and they loose all their richness in texture. But hey, I haven't tried loading the same sample in a Combinator with five NN-XT devices yet.

handy · Post by **handy** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 3:53 pm

10/10 for trying to stir it up (!), but if you can get the same sound out of both minimonsta and reason, AND maybe learn a bit about how these synths are programmed by looking at the combinator routing, then surely this is really Reasons greatest new strength as advertised

??

Squids · Post by **Squids** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 3:57 pm

We've been working with Reason 3 and the Combinator pretty heavily. I think it is the best thing that ever happened to Reason. It is capable of sounding great and the effects can be saved as part of the sound with incredible flexibility. Subtractor and Dr. Rex are greatly enhanced by the Combinator in many ways but the NNXT is capable of being just as powerful a synth or moreso than some of the various synth plug-ins you may like. I don't think Combinator reveals weakness but actually just enhances the whole package all around. It makes Reason MORE valuable to those that use it heavily. To me, the most significant update before it was the NNXT itself. But, the Combinator is perhaps the most exciting new thing since. It's hard to see maybe but you can think of the Combinator as an open ended Rompler within Reason and connected with sound development it can be a piano module, a synth module, a string module, a drum module etc.

I love Reason 3. To me it just gets better and better. This update is a lot more significant than people think. The other thing is the new sounds (which SR was a part of) and there's a LOT of content included in the package now. Good VFM. I don't expect to convince everyone but for those that respect my opinion, I am telling you that there's more to R3 than you might think. Check this out: http://www.sonicreality.com/news/R3Refills.php

Meffy · Post by **Meffy** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 3:59 pm

JValentin, I couyldn't agree with you more. Drop Reason, get another program, and enjoy life. It's far too short to waste arguing about fives, don't you think?

'Bye now! Enjoy!

Meffy

deep · Post by **deep** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:16 pm

Meffy wrote:JValentin, I couyldn't agree with you more. Drop Reason, get another program, and enjoy life. It's far too short to waste arguing about fives, don't you think?

'Bye now! Enjoy!

Meffy

And that's the closest thing you'll ever get to an admission from a Reason evangelical

Just jibing

Meffy · Post by **Meffy** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:18 pm

More like "if you mean it, go ahead and do it; if not, why stir up arguments over nothing?" ;-) Just because I happen to love Reason doesn't mean it's everyone's cup of tea. C'est la vie!

theshaggyfreak · Post by **theshaggyfreak** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:21 pm

Like any other program, Reason is just a tool. It's not the end all be all, and I'll be the first to admit that no matter how much I love reason. Sure, I user Reason a lot, but I also use other programs and synths (FL Studio, Wusikstation, etc). If you don't like the tool, don't use it. If people didn't find the program useful, they wouldn't buy it. Aparently people do find it useful.

Amberience · Post by **Amberience** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:27 pm

Why the hell don't some people get it? REASON IS A MODULAR RACK!!

Do you complain when a single sawtooth oscillator in Reaktor or Tassman doesn't rival Ferry Corsten?? I roll my eyes at you.

Combinator reveals Reason's weakness