KVR Audio

quincy · Post by **quincy** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:34 pm

Acolmiztli wrote:Why the hell don't some people get it? REASON IS A MODULAR RACK!!

Do you complain when a single sawtooth oscillator in Reaktor or Tassman doesn't rival Ferry Corsten?? I roll my eyes at you.

Thats a bit of a dodgy metaphor.

A so-called complete synth like subtractor isnt really the same as an oscillator in a modular is it? I can see both sides of the coin with reason, and some people need to realise that a strength can also be a weakness and this is demonstrated in all products.

Z3TA - powerful, but complex
EnergyXT - flexible, but can be confusing

And so on and so forth. Why some people need to get an ego boost by trying to persuade themselves that they use the "best" tools is beyond me. Reeks of lacking in self-confidence somehow.

Sicklecell666 · Post by **Sicklecell666** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:39 pm

Not to mention you have more shaping control over 5 monosynths that you do over a 5 voice polyphonic as a polyphonic shares at least *some* controls over all components. The impression I get is people are:

A - too f**king lazy to do the work involved in programming a patch using sympathetic parameters over more than one instrument, ie: detuning, envelope adjustments, filter settings, etc.

B - They simply lack creativity and want all the work done for them.

My observation despite all the patches available for the Reason instrument is Reason is a patch maker's enviornment at heart, and failure to apply patch design over multiple instruments used in a MODULAR RACK often results in the misinterpretation of Reason having a thin sound..

harmony gardens · Post by **harmony gardens** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:42 pm

I'm curious, what can Reason do that say Sampletank can't?

AD80 · Post by **AD80** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:44 pm

I know 4 people (including myself) who wont be upgrading their 2.5 licences. Sorry Props, better luck with 3.5. I know four people is not even a small percentage for the props but still. After 2 years this update is just not enough! And before any of you newbie Reason Patriots tries to convince me that it IS enough, keep in mind I've had Reason since version 1.000. I used it exclusively for 2 years and know it inside and out.

BUT, I dont think I'm gonna sell my licence (yet atleast). I'll let it collect dust for another 2 years until 3.5 is released. I'm pretty confident 3.5 will be a more attractive upgrade. Reason as a whole is a great program, but the drawbacks overshadow the advantages to me atleast. Especially since I use two modular hosts already (Tracktion, and EXT).

quincy · Post by **quincy** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:44 pm

Probably a very fair point there sickle, but i have to say that the props would be a bit cheeky to use the argument of it being a giant modular synth when they clearly originally launched the product as a total studio solution, and certainly never made it clear that they would expect people to layer up many of their "great" individual synths just to make one patch.

I agree though, as a modular sound design environemnt its pretty tasty when you think about it, and yes people need to realise they need to put work in to get great results out, same as with any sound software.

People just need to learn to shut the f**k up and realise that just cos they love/hate something doesn't mean everyone else has to agree. Egos abound around here.

dramsenik · Post by **dramsenik** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:50 pm

People just need to learn to shut the f**k up and realise that just cos they love/hate something doesn't mean everyone else has to agree. Egos abound around here

but.....

this forum would die....

quincy · Post by **quincy** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:52 pm

dramsenik wrote:
People just need to learn to shut the f**k up and realise that just cos they love/hate something doesn't mean everyone else has to agree. Egos abound around here
but.....

this forum would die....

Thats a bloody good point!

As you were!

Amberience · Post by **Amberience** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:53 pm

Quincy wrote:Thats a bit of a dodgy metaphor.

I was being deliberately obtuse, but its not completely dodgy. My point was if you think of the Reason devices as modules, or even primatives, then you begin to understand what you can achieve with it.

Sicklecell666 wrote:too f**king lazy to do the work involved in programming a patch using sympathetic parameters over more than one instrument, ie: detuning, envelope adjustments, filter settings, etc.

That is a pretty good assesment of the situation. Because people assume a "full" synth should sound as phat as everything else without some work, they get pissed off when it doesn't. Even though it is possible to make it sound phat. Its not as if they can't - its not as if even with a big bag of magic, Reason still couldn't sound phat, because it can! Its been proven time and time again too. You need to work.

But these people who complain about Reason sounding thin don't understand what you're supposed to do with this software: you're supposed to BUILD.

I can't say it enough. BUILD BUILD BUILD BUILD. You're SUPPOSED to use more than one synth to achieve the sound you need, this is Reason's strength not its weakness.

They didn't launch Reason as a total studio solution, and it clearly is not. But it is a good program for beginners and pro's alike.

What can Reason do that Sampletank can't? Er... synthesis maybe?

apflaum · Post by **apflaum** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:55 pm

ive never had any problems with reason. First off, I think demanding an instant "phat" sound is kinda lame. Who in their right mind would expect or want subtractor to pull up and sound like the minimonsta?!? I have fun with reason. Tie a buncha stuff together, use their great collection of presets, free refills, etc. Run drums or something through maelstrom and automate the filter paramaters. No the result never sounds like something I would want to put directly on an album, but with rewire you just add a few effects, a bit on the heavy side, like something from izotope, and some mastering stuff to warm it up and it sounds great. Plus, everyone has to remember that soft synths like z3ta, Vanguard, etc. that have this monsterous sound, all that sound is from the onboard effects. Strip all the effects and will get a sound you can do on any synth nearly, and than just build back the effects through vst plugins, or hell even use the z3ta effects unit as a vst.

Sicklecell666 · Post by **Sicklecell666** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:55 pm

Acolmiztli wrote:What can Reason do that Sampletank can't? Er... synthesis maybe?

ouch. So f**king obvious it even slid under my Radar..

theshaggyfreak · Post by **theshaggyfreak** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:56 pm

quincy wrote: People just need to learn to shut the f**k up and realise that just cos they love/hate something doesn't mean everyone else has to agree. Egos abound around here.

The tools that we use are going to be a lot like the kinds of music that each one of us enjoys writing/listening to. If I don't like the music I'm listening to, I change the channel or put in a different CD. I don't sit there and complain that, "This band sucks, and they should work to get better!" I just don't listen to them anymore, and i move on. Same thing with the tools I use. I've given many of the major players a try out there, and if I test something out and don't like it...I don't buy it. I don't see what's so hard about that concept.

Amberience · Post by **Amberience** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:57 pm

Sicklecell666 wrote:
Acolmiztli wrote:What can Reason do that Sampletank can't? Er... synthesis maybe?
ouch. So f**king obvious it even slid under my Radar..

quincy · Post by **quincy** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:58 pm

Acolmiztli wrote: They didn't launch Reason as a total studio solution

You make good points, but sorry i think this bit is just plain wrong.

I have the computer music mags with the first preview of reason, and the original reviews, and they quite clearly did intend it to be an "all-in-one" solution.

That said, it seems now to have taken on a life of its own as a modular sound module, and regadless of the props intentions this seems to be its strongest card in my opinion and many others it seems (rewired to a sequencer etc)

Like you said mate, build build build! Apart from anything else, the modular building bit is damn good fun!!

harmony gardens · Post by **harmony gardens** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:58 pm

might sound stupid, but I don't own Reason, and I'm asking. sorry if I just ask a simple question.

Amberience · Post by **Amberience** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 5:01 pm

quincy wrote: I have the computer music mags with the first preview of reason, and the original reviews, and they quite clearly did intend it to be an "all-in-one" solution.

Well maybe I'm being pedantic, but to me there is a difference between "total solution" and "all-in-one" solution. For me, the total solution implies that you'll never ever need another piece of software again - it'll do everything. Whereas all-in-out implies that you get all you need to make music, but there might not be those less pre-requisite things like audio recording.

Of course thats me: I don't need audio recording, but no doubt some Reason users are desperate for it.

Combinator reveals Reason's weakness