Can somebody claims copyright on a rhythm? I'm not talking about the normal 4/4 or rock beats, but something that is so unique that anybody can recognise it (if they know the original song).
I'm thinking about rhythms like the Bo Didley rhythm, or the Terminator theme, Le Grange, or there are many songs that became famous mainly because of some unique rhythm.
Can a rhythm be copyrighted?
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- KVRAF
- 2401 posts since 29 Dec, 2002 from In the dark
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- KVRAF
- 16844 posts since 8 Mar, 2005 from Utrecht, Holland
You can "write" it, so be the author, and hence have copyright. Not ??
We are the KVR collective. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated. 
My MusicCalc is served over https!!
My MusicCalc is served over https!!
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- KVRAF
- 2828 posts since 31 Dec, 2004 from Canarias
No.
Carpo diem ergo sum !
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- KVRAF
- 2750 posts since 2 Feb, 2005 from Raincoast of Grayland
Or Miami Sound Machine? Not sure about copyright, but put it in a plug-in and get a software-patent.
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- KVRAF
- 10597 posts since 13 Jun, 2004 from Alberto Balsam
I've wondered this my self as most trance songs made in the last 4 years have almost identical structures and rhythm
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- KVRAF
- 6519 posts since 13 Mar, 2002 from UK
No, No, Yes Yes, No.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2401 posts since 29 Dec, 2002 from In the dark
I thought not. But if so then whoever did the first trance song can be a very rich man!
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- KVRian
- 1243 posts since 24 Oct, 2003 from Maine
You can't copyright any rhythm. If you have the same notes as the melody, then you've copied the melody, which is copyrightable. That's why you occassionally will hear a rap song with the exact same chords and rhythm as some 70's soul hit, but different lyrics.
♫♪♫♫♪♫
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- KVRian
- 1411 posts since 25 Sep, 2003 from The Dirty South, USA
As long as it's compose on paper (like Max Roach), yes!Sepheritoh wrote:Can somebody claims copyright on a rhythm? I'm not talking about the normal 4/4 or rock beats, but something that is so unique that anybody can recognise it (if they know the original song).
I'm thinking about rhythms like the Bo Didley rhythm, or the Terminator theme, Le Grange, or there are many songs that became famous mainly because of some unique rhythm.
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- KVRAF
- 5703 posts since 8 Dec, 2004 from The Twin Cities
If you write a drum part and either write it on paper or make a recording of it and send it to the u.s. copyright office with the proper forms, it is officially copyrighted.
Licensing (i.e. with ASCAP, BMI or whoever) is a different issue. You can register your drum part. But they will have a hell of a time collecting from the infringers.
Licensing (i.e. with ASCAP, BMI or whoever) is a different issue. You can register your drum part. But they will have a hell of a time collecting from the infringers.
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- Beware the Quoth
- 35500 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair
Johnosaurus quoth You cannot copyright a rythm. You can only copyright a recording of a rythm.
If the rhythm has been notated in some form, this is false.
If the rhythm has been notated in some form, this is false.
An idiot on Set Theory:
"In some cases there is an object called red that contains everything that is red. In much the same way a pot is a plate."
"In some cases there is an object called red that contains everything that is red. In much the same way a pot is a plate."
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- KVRAF
- 1718 posts since 3 Sep, 2003
Rythms DO have copyright. Everything does.
The question is whether its defendable or not, and rythms for the most part are not. Copyright is not like patents. Its not the melody/rythm/lyric in it self that you have the rights to, only the copying of them.
Meaning, if someone comes up with the same melody independantly from yours he is free to use it. To prove a breach of copyright you must be able to prove access to the copied work etc. (Patents on the other hand allow you own a technology, and noone else can use it even if they invented it on their own.)
Most rythms are not unique enough to even qualify as "works" though, because they are mostly variations on stuff thats been around for a long time. And its also very likely that two people come up with the same rythm independently.
So, there is copyright, but it is rarely defendable.
The question is whether its defendable or not, and rythms for the most part are not. Copyright is not like patents. Its not the melody/rythm/lyric in it self that you have the rights to, only the copying of them.
Meaning, if someone comes up with the same melody independantly from yours he is free to use it. To prove a breach of copyright you must be able to prove access to the copied work etc. (Patents on the other hand allow you own a technology, and noone else can use it even if they invented it on their own.)
Most rythms are not unique enough to even qualify as "works" though, because they are mostly variations on stuff thats been around for a long time. And its also very likely that two people come up with the same rythm independently.
So, there is copyright, but it is rarely defendable.
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- KVRAF
- 2608 posts since 26 Aug, 2002 from here
i found the milo article in last month's SOS to be quite interesting - he talked about the problems of clearing an album full of samples
lines like "the samples not been cleared, but apparently I don't have to because it's so far removed from the original record was. However I don't have that officially from my lawyer, so I better not tell you what it is"
One song samples prince (kiss - duh!) but the sample was tiny "even though that's clearly prince, because it's just one hit - it's a snare and a grunt - it's got no intellectual copyright status of any kind becuase it's so primal. So even though it's indusputably prince, apparently we are OK, we don't have to clear it becuase it has no musical content"
now i find this latter one most interesting as I am sure anyone who knows prince at all knows the grunt and snare hit in question - so surely this does break the rules
but it also seems to be saying that you can sample all the individual drum hits you want from your record collection - which is nice
lines like "the samples not been cleared, but apparently I don't have to because it's so far removed from the original record was. However I don't have that officially from my lawyer, so I better not tell you what it is"
One song samples prince (kiss - duh!) but the sample was tiny "even though that's clearly prince, because it's just one hit - it's a snare and a grunt - it's got no intellectual copyright status of any kind becuase it's so primal. So even though it's indusputably prince, apparently we are OK, we don't have to clear it becuase it has no musical content"
now i find this latter one most interesting as I am sure anyone who knows prince at all knows the grunt and snare hit in question - so surely this does break the rules
but it also seems to be saying that you can sample all the individual drum hits you want from your record collection - which is nice
I believe every thread should devolve into character attacks and witch-burning. It really helps the discussion.