Sytrus vs Rhino [6 years dead thread bumped; go to page 21]

[dlt123]

Hi,

You can now all order Sytrus from our webshop at $50 till the end of March.

btw. Please note that our admin is off snowboarding till tomorrow (noon) so there's no need to rush over to our webshop at the moment as the orders won't be processed until tomorrow afternoon. Sorry about this.

See ya,

jmc (FL Studio)

Do you need to own FL to get this for $50 or will it work in other hosts?

Don't own FL so wouldn't want to buy Sytrus if you need to also have FL to use it.

Thanks,
DennisT

[ouroboros]

Nope. It comes as a vst/dx and fruity synth.


$50

[jzero]

Great deal! Buy it! Buy it! It's excellent.

Then with the money you save, get in on the WusikStation goup buy too. You'll be in new synth heaven for months... (years?)

http://www.wusik.com/index.php?pagep=wu ... chase#WSGB

[lawapa]

Tick's examples are spot on. These are more or less the kind of sounds available with RCM in SY77. But my gosh, are they easier to edit in Rhino ! :)

I'v been using the rgcaudio Pentagon user waves and soundforge. Using the synth function I create a single cycle waveform. I then take a portion of an audio file and using the copy/mix function modulate that single cycle waveform. Loading this up in Pentagon does result in some most unusual sounds. While this does not mimic the SY series synths from Yamaha and it's abilitys to use samples in a synth type matrix. No softsynth can do this to my knowledge at this point. But if one was available it would be a synth to have

[sdv]

Yep, the debate should be on algorithms vs samples pure & simple. No judgement call on either as Iuse both types of instruments, but there is a difference.
////
And both Cytrus and Rhino have algorithms (being FM synths), hence there's not much sense in your reasoning. Or are you going to prove that Rhino hasn't got any algorithms ? Hmm ?
///////
Of course Rhino has algorithms, but since it also playback samples then the sound really isn't a *pure* algorithm machine. Pedantic view perhaps but true.

Not true at all.
Use only FM and/or waveshaping without any samples and what do you get ?
You are left with your algorithm only, making Rhino your "pure algorithm machine".

Yes, that is correct, Rhino *does* have algorithms and can be a *pure* synth. I wrote that while travelling at a library and it was in haste.
I suppose for my thinking the idea is that that why would someone want to do FM on Rhino(?)... I would for sure make use of it's sampling features.
So to correctly compare the two we need to be using just FM (no sample but perhaps wavetable) synthesis.
In this respect the best comparisons can be made via the DX7 patches... since both synths can import I suggest the original poster to use those patches/algorithms as a basis for the respective FM qualities.

This brings up a point in comparing synths.... we should vote on a "standard" bank of say 20+ patches for each developer to add to their demos, that way each synth can be have a basis for sound/cpu/? comparisons. Naturally each type of synthesis would have it's own rules. There would still be opportunity for the 'showcase' patches. What do you think dev's??

[shamann]

Rhino does FM quite well. It doesn't have the same character as Sytrus, but Sytrus dosn't have the same character as Rhino, so it all works out nicely in the end.

(baffled that you started this all up again 2 weeks later though)

[sdv]

(baffled that you started this all up again 2 weeks later though)

Now that I'm back at a computer I just had to respond to Forever Sun's statement that indeed I do see that Rhino can do *pure* FM.

[DavenH]

So how is the group buy going JMC?

[Big Tick]

This brings up a point in comparing synths.... we should vote on a "standard" bank of say 20+ patches for each developer to add to their demos, that way each synth can be have a basis for sound/cpu/? comparisons. Naturally each type of synthesis would have it's own rules. There would still be opportunity for the 'showcase' patches. What do you think dev's??

There are already 2 banks of DX7-imported presets for Rhino. Although they were tweaked after the import, they use pure FM synthesis.
'Tick

[tony tony chopper]

This thread again?

Anyway, FM is a too pure synthesis method for a FM synth to have its 'character' I'm afraid.

One could say that a subtracting synth has its own character because of its special filters or oscillators, and while usually bullshit, it can be true, filters & oscillators can be different in many ways.
But there's not much customizing part in FM - you don't want special oscillators here, and certainly not bandlimited ones. Algo is dead simple and unique. Envelopes.. as long as you have multipoints you can do pretty much everything. And routing.. as long as you have a free matrix, same thing.

That only leaves antialiasing, that can only be done through oversampling to my knowledge, so you'll probably get less aliasing from Sytrus.

[spaceman]

Sytrus definitely has a character of it's own
Rhino as well but slightly less pronounced in my opinion

[Summa]

There are more than slight differences between FM Synths, it for instance makes a difference what kind of FM the synth is using, like linear FM, logarithmic FM or Phase Modulation. Also the possible Mod Amount and the resolution of the Wavetables, (and as you mentioned) oversampling makes a difference as well as the shape of the waveforms and the way they're implemented. Like on subtractive synths mathematicly perfect waveforms aren't the best solution. So FS1R sounds unlike TX802 sounds unlike TX81z sounds unlike TG77 sounds unlike VZ-1 even so in general they synthesis wise behave alike...
When it comes to Sytrus and Rhino ... no comment, I don't want to get between the lines...

...Summa

[angry_reindeer]

I own Sytrus, but have never used Rhino. I am very comfortable with it and it has great versatility, being able to do most of the things I want it to (despite only being amateur at sound designing.) However, as everyone mentions, the presets suck. But who uses presets to actually produce original music?

Anyway, I didn't want to go on a chauvinistic rant about how great sytrus is when I am completely ignorant of Rhino, so I went to its website. Just upon reading its features, it is clearly much better than Sytrus:

Though Sytrus has 1 more filter, and a bunch of envelopes, Rhino boasts a multitude of more effect (like 20? as opposed to Sytrus's 3 (Reverb, 3 Delays and a Chorus).

The other thing it has that Sytrus does not is the ability to sample. Both have harmonic additive synthesis, though.

So in the end, the only differences are Rhino: +17 effects, sampling; Sytrus: +1 filter.

And you can make up for the filter in Rhino using your effects board on your mixer, and the same goes for the missing effects on Sytrus.

So, get Rhino. But if you have Sytrus you can still do what you want.

[standalone]

But who uses presets to actually produce original music?

Composers?.

[Lotuzia]

I own Sytrus, but have never used Rhino. I am very comfortable with it and it has great versatility, being able to do most of the things I want it to (despite only being amateur at sound designing.) However, as everyone mentions, the presets suck. But who uses presets to actually produce original music?

Anyway, I didn't want to go on a chauvinistic rant about how great sytrus is when I am completely ignorant of Rhino, so I went to its website. Just upon reading its features, it is clearly much better than Sytrus:

Though Sytrus has 1 more filter, and a bunch of envelopes, Rhino boasts a multitude of more effect (like 20? as opposed to Sytrus's 3 (Reverb, 3 Delays and a Chorus).

The other thing it has that Sytrus does not is the ability to sample. Both have harmonic additive synthesis, though.

So in the end, the only differences are Rhino: +17 effects, sampling; Sytrus: +1 filter.

And you can make up for the filter in Rhino using your effects board on your mixer, and the same goes for the missing effects on Sytrus.

So, get Rhino. But if you have Sytrus you can still do what you want.

Well thats forgetting how much filters, for example, can be important for the sound. There are filters, and ....... there are filters. ( Tautology's King )

As can be enveloppes, as can be all the tiny FM parameters some might find important, or less important, to have available ( Like KB scaling, offset, etc).

Everything matters.

The ability to load samples is a cool feature. But any sampler can do that too. So in the end, as both units have demo, it might be a good idea to try them. I have made some factory content for Sytrus, and tbh have much much less experience with Rhino, but both units have their strenghts. And sound very different.

LtZ