KVR Audio

popsych · Post by **popsych** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 11:54 am

This is somewhat realated to the logic PC:: fight or swith thread but my problem has a twist : I have tried replacing Logic with a multitude of hosts, mainly due to it's inability of working with a couple of excellent soft synths (Korg Legacy Cell and White Noise Zero Vector) but with no success as my work is mainly MIDI based. Also would like to use rewire, but is utter s*** [bigrantmodeon]

Sonar 4 : I find the MIDI laughable compared to Logic, no so much feature wise, but workflow wise. Also hate the DXi trouble.

SX2 : Cluttered, Cluttered, Cluttered and did i mention Cluttered ? Also an unintuitive mixer, and again MIDI editing is bad.

Both above mentioned keep vstis running even when inactive so are CPU killers.

Podium : This is looking quite promising, and has an innovative way of thinking but is, maybe , a bit too "innovative" in some departments, while in the automation you can't see where you're drawing over. No key bindings and other typical pro products stuff. Has a lot o potential though.

Tracktion : This is a joke midi wise and i don't like it's UI (not the colours of course - the workflow)

Sampltitude : This is getting quite good, and has a multitude of things i like in Logic, e.g. one tool - many uses, which i really miss in other hosts, a bit lacking on features for MIDI but excellent Audio, mixer and workflow. I can't get a level meter readout of the VSTi output though and the editor is a bit slow when loading unloading, using.

In the end i reached the conclusion that the only thing that would do, was a MAC and Logic 7, but then i realised that most of my lovely plugs do not exist on MAC

. Taking the sculptor metaphor I have to choose to compromise between my chisel and my Materials.

Can anyone suggest another chisel

or am i stuck ?
I don't like the chainer/ext workaround.
[/bigrantmodeoff]

chagzuki · Post by **chagzuki** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 12:05 pm

What exactly can Logic (I guess you're talking about 5.5 or whatever the last PC version was) do midi-wise that other hosts can't? Chances are you're so familiar with Logic and you haven't delved deep enough into what other hosts are capable of.

stag · Post by **stag** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 12:06 pm

Well I´m sorry to hear about your inadequacies to use a modern sequencer.
Albeit you are not alone ,a lot of Logic 7 users claim to be with a dupe progie that´s compared with a modern car with zillions of horse power but no one knoows where is the steering wheel on top of that there are those cool looking buttons on the dash board but if someone touches one probably his seat could explode .

i guess you´d better get someone to make you a custom sequencer.

The reason why some apps don´t stop their audio engine is because offull PDC ,but you can alternatively switch it off to get the fell of Logic7.

UltraJv · Post by **UltraJv** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 12:11 pm

Have you tried Fruity Loops Studio? Logic 7 looks similar

CinningBao · Post by **CinningBao** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 12:12 pm

I've gone through this issue, trying to move away from Logic 5.51 to another host, and tried out most of the alternatives, HATE SX, Samplitude caught my eye for a bit aswell, but I could never get into the general flow of things.. Obviously you would prefer to work in a linear fashion, so Live is out the door (crappy VST handling anyway). MacMinis weren't out when I had my problem, so that wasn't an option - an expensive PowerBook was, but without the funds, I had nothing.
Finally I've reached Tracktion.
I'm not sure you should dismiss it so quickly, T2 will be out in the following weeks and a number of the enhancements have brought the product almost inline with the higher-end hosts.

I expect you'll see a variety of other options below this posting, but I'd say wait for T2 if you want to remain on PC, otherwise get a mac and be absolutely chuffed to bits with Sculpture, as I would be.

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 12:18 pm

What exactly are your problems with Korg Legacy and ZV? I dont own either of these but have tried the demo of ZV and it worked fine in Logic 5.51 (using the following method). Thing is these days I never ever put any VST's directly in Logic's VST folder anyway - I just have a copy of Energy XT (and XTe) in it (using the Logic skin) and load all my plugins through that (having pointed eXT to my central shared VST folder). I can't think of any plugin that hasn't worked for me in Logic using this approach.

popsych · Post by **popsych** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 12:21 pm

stag wrote:Well I´m sorry to hear about your inadequacies to use a modern sequencer.
Albeit you are not alone ,a lot of Logic 7 users claim to be with a dupe progie that´s compared with a modern car with zillions of horse power but no one knoows where is the steering wheel on top of that there are those cool looking buttons on the dash board but if someone touches one probably his seat could explode .

i guess you´d better get someone to make you a custom sequencer.

The reason why some apps don´t stop their audio engine is because offull PDC ,but you can alternatively switch it off to get the fell of Logic7.

First, if you haven't got the brains to drive Logic don't blame it on Logic, cause others do, and very successfuly too.

Second, if you can't see that other hosts lack not so much features, but workflow and elegant tools MIDI wise compared too Logic, then fine. You don't need them, i do.

And for your last comment, PDC has nothing to do with inactive plugins, since SAMP e.g. does this, and it had full PDC, WAYYYYYYYYYYY before your beloved Cubase did, so it's just bad cubase implementation. Sorry. (Also DP does this).

If you don't know what you're talking about just don't bother posting.

stag · Post by **stag** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 12:28 pm

popsych wrote:
First, if you haven't got the brains to drive Logic don't blame it on Logic, cause others do, and very successfuly too.

Second, if you can't see that other hosts lack not so much features, but workflow and elegant tools MIDI wise compared too Logic, then fine. You don't need them, i do.

And for your last comment, PDC has nothing to do with inactive plugins, since SAMP e.g. does this, and it had full PDC, WAYYYYYYYYYYY before your beloved Cubase did, so it's just bad cubase implementation. Sorry. (Also DP does this).

If you don't know what you're talking about just don't bother posting.

Well the same to you Mr.
I can use L7 or anything else .
i´d never trade SX fot a semi pro app ,with lots of bells and whistles to disguise is true weaknesses.
BTW i don´t mind at all calling you names too like Moron I just think that figthing over the net is so retarded So L7 user,i don´t bother to engage that.

chagzuki · Post by **chagzuki** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 12:28 pm

Well it seems that all you can do is either compromise your workflow or your VSTS. You've tried all the hosts available.

popsych · Post by **popsych** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 12:38 pm

Stag are you related to SUPERPROTOOLSUSER ?

stag · Post by **stag** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 4:41 pm

popsych wrote:Stag are you related to SUPERPROTOOLSUSER ?

I´m more akin of Super Pro Troll sniffer.

popsych · Post by **popsych** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 5:14 pm

I've come to the conclusion that as of yet i can't replace logic, and i'll be using a workaround for ZV. The most likely replacing candidate is Samplitude if they get their act together. However much i do hate Steinberg (except for WL5

) i'll give them one thing : They didn't dump either side of their clientele - Sonar not so much as it was always more PC oriented but Logic was the ULTIMATE equally functional cross-platform host and they wrecked it. Sigh sigh,

and all that. Boo hoo. Logic 5.5.1 is still a capable host though and i hope that in a year or so i will have more choices.

Resonance · Post by **Resonance** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 5:17 pm

aMUSEd wrote:What exactly are your problems with Korg Legacy and ZV? I dont own either of these but have tried the demo of ZV and it worked fine in Logic 5.51 (using the following method). Thing is these days I never ever put any VST's directly in Logic's VST folder anyway - I just have a copy of Energy XT (and XTe) in it (using the Logic skin) and load all my plugins through that (having pointed eXT to my central shared VST folder). I can't think of any plugin that hasn't worked for me in Logic using this approach.

I wonder if Chainer would work in a similar fashion to EnergyXT for hosting problem VSTs within Logic?

I'm still using Logic 5.5.1 - and the same holds true for me, that midi-wise, nothing can replace it. Samplitude comes close, but it still needs work...

There's just a wonderful flow about it when programming and editing MIDI parts. Things like Automatic Quantize with all the different swing gradients, and the Event List editor is far quicker than f**king about with a piano roll screen.

It's almost perfect - and that's the problem.

Maybe Samplitude v.9 or 10 will solve both of our problems...

original flipper · Post by **original flipper** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 5:18 pm

HI

Just go buy a Mac - I assume you have several thousand £/$ to buy all the necessary upgrades/software - if this is the case what are you waiting for?

If you don't have the money then you better just make the change to another host and start to get used to it.

Sorry to sound blunt but you appear to have checked out the other PC sequencers - there isn't a secret one tucked away!

I am waiting for T2 - if it does not have a more workable updating to the midi side of things it's gonna be SXV3 - I am an ex Logic user - there is life beyond it, you know.

Flipper.

TotcProductions · Post by **TotcProductions** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 5:19 pm

Why did you bother with SX2...try SX3...Working with midi is alot easier and much more efficient than in version 2 IMO.

Other than that.....ummm....get a mac i guess. ; )

I don't use it, but i know alot of people that like Orion.....I highly doubt it compares at all to logic, but it's worth a demo at least.

Hope that helps a bit

peace!

Logic PC:: Again