Psytrance Bass

[Psygotran]

After a lot of frustration I am at my wits end, I am trying to create a typical Psychedelic Trance, bass line/pulse, but simply cannot seem to get it right. The majority of well known bands..Astral Projection, Delirious, Astrix etc...use a pulsing, throbing sub-bass sound that leaves me confused. Anyone here
know how to get this sound?

All help appreciated.

[dsp music]

as funny as it can seems a lot of psytrance producers make their basslines with steinberg VB-1
add some compression, and the most important is EQ!!!
but you can also use v station, albino, synth1 ....

[Spaceman Sounds]

| |_________________________________________________________________________________________________________| |
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| |* | . | |\| H_| . . . | . | . . | A | A D | *| |
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| | | | " | | """ | | | | |
| | | pitch | control tune transpose | | control shape | ad | repeat bypass | | |
| |* `---------"---------------------------------' `-----------------"---------"-----------------' *| |
| | ___ __ __ __ __ __ __ ___ __ __ __ __ | |
| | | |__) /\ |\ | (_ / |_ |\ | | \ |_ |\ | | _) / \ / \ / \ POWERTRAN | |
| | | | \ /--\ | \| __) \__ |__ | \| |__/ |__ | \| | /__ \__/ \__/ \__/ apx | |
| |_________________________________________________________________________________________________________| |
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
|_|________|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|________|_|

[Spaceman Sounds]

hmmm that didnt work : (

[VitaminD]

good luck finding the answer here.. the very same question has been asked many times before (here) and to my knowledge has never specifically been addressed.. you mainly get the vague 'vb1 use eq and compression' style responses like dsp suggested but never 'osc1 34%, osc2 45%, sub 60%, cutoff 15%' type answers.

so I say goodluck.. I'd be interested too in the response.. I know there are ppl in the kvr community who directly KNOW the answer to this Q.. its only a matter of them responding with that answer.

[dsp music]

well as you may guess, in psytrance ( as well as other techno styles) the settings of a bassline depends a lot on what kind of kick you use, so i think it's not really relevant to give particular settings of eq and comp and it's also a matter of taste
as i said, i use a comp to add some dynamic : very fast setting for attack (0.5 to 1 ms) and release ( as fast as possible), a 2.5/3:1 ratio and the treshold on -10 Db
on the EQ, a narrow cut around 450 Hz (-15Db), and a small boost on freq around 250 and 850 Hz (+2Db) with a larger Q, cutting all frequencies above 3500hz will leave some room for the rest of the mix , and below 40hz.
but these are personal settings, based on some i found on CM Guide to EQ added to personal tastes and experiences.

there are some interesting tutorials on the CM site as well as on the web, you should have a look, it gives "start points" and guidelines for anything you need to know about producing music ...
hope this will help

btw, for the vb-i, i use preset 5 as a start ...
and you can also add a distortion effect after the eq, so you would harmonize only the desired freq

[peanut]

sample your bass notes raw and long, then cut and load into a sampler to tweak your ADSR settings. you end up with so much more control and can really craft that rolling bassline sound the way you want it. THEN apply comp and eq. try kjerhus classic bundle if you're after a nice free eq or compressor.

my basslines are very deep so i need to sample to not run into weird phase issues, this way i end up with a nice consistant note.

no psytrance producer in his right mind is going to come in and tell you exact settings to dial in to a synth for their bass sound. give a man a fish he'll eat for a day...blah blah you don't want to sound exactly like them do you...?

what i can tell you is i know eskimo uses two different bass synths, one for low notes and one for high notes. given the artists you listed it sure sounds like you're after that "full on" bass sound so it could be worth a try.

good luck,
tim/half of hefty output (ketuh records)

[The Chase]

Do you know of an audio example of what you are trying to create?

[VitaminD]

well as you may guess, in psytrance ( as well as other techno styles) the settings of a bassline depends a lot on what kind of kick you use, so i think it's not really relevant to give particular settings of eq and comp and it's also a matter of taste
as i said, i use a comp to add some dynamic : very fast setting for attack (0.5 to 1 ms) and release ( as fast as possible), a 2.5/3:1 ratio and the treshold on -10 Db
on the EQ, a narrow cut around 450 Hz (-15Db), and a small boost on freq around 250 and 850 Hz (+2Db) with a larger Q, cutting all frequencies above 3500hz will leave some room for the rest of the mix , and below 40hz.
but these are personal settings, based on some i found on CM Guide to EQ added to personal tastes and experiences.

there are some interesting tutorials on the CM site as well as on the web, you should have a look, it gives "start points" and guidelines for anything you need to know about producing music ...
hope this will help

btw, for the vb-i, i use preset 5 as a start ...
and you can also add a distortion effect after the eq, so you would harmonize only the desired freq

hmm since you seem to know how to achieve this sound.. can you record a small clip of your bassline?

[hoffy]

Listen to Tim.

Hefty output are great by the way, even when Ableton f**ks up for them before their live sets...

[VitaminD]

sample your bass notes raw and long, then cut and load into a sampler to tweak your ADSR settings. you end up with so much more control and can really craft that rolling bassline sound the way you want it. THEN apply comp and eq. try kjerhus classic bundle if you're after a nice free eq or compressor.

my basslines are very deep so i need to sample to not run into weird phase issues, this way i end up with a nice consistant note.

hey, thanks! this is closer than I think anyone has got so far as to answer this question.. and I think is well worth some extra experimentation..

no psytrance producer in his right mind is going to come in and tell you exact settings to dial in to a synth for their bass sound. give a man a fish he'll eat for a day...blah blah you don't want to sound exactly like them do you...?

I think thats bad though.. many/most other genres arent so closed off like that.. especially here on kvr

well I've only heard a clip of the Ghb Remix but from that I'd say that your sound (if that is your sound) is near exact to that of neuromotor... and his sound is probably near exact to that of many others from the past.. but who cares? They all use the similar/nearexactsame sounds and effects and create something unique.

this isnt specifically directed (or aimed however you see it ) at you.. but more at the (commercial) goa/psy community as a whole.. I've emailed major melodic/epic trance artists and they've been willing to share information (okay so not presets of their sounds - not that I asked ) but it seems a lot differeont on the goa side.. boo.

what i can tell you is i know eskimo uses two different bass synths, one for low notes and one for high notes. given the artists you listed it sure sounds like you're after that "full on" bass sound so it could be worth a try.

thats an interesting idea too.. you could get creative with that.. more saw on one octave and more square on the other.. or viceversa^2 ..could get wild. thanks for that

I mean uhmmm... *ahem.. delete delete* im not telling you anyhting about my technique.. its been done a million times before me by other artists but I dont want you to sound just like me..

[victorjohn]

Well, one way is to use a good multisample of the old Roland SH101. If you use Reason3 like I do, the flatpack stuff has some really good 101 samples.

Second to that option is creating one on any good analog synth emulation. I usually get such a sound myself from something like the Albino or V-Station, or even Alpha.

The initial sound is more important than any EQ or compression you do later, tho a nice breathing and pumping feeling on the kick and sidechained to the bass will do wonders.

Try using said analog type plugin, I like to use sawtooth oscillators with the second one detuned a bit and lower in the mix. Set your filters to a 12db lowpass and set the cutoff low to remove most of the high end gack out of the initial sound. Resonance is to taste depending on whether you need it to sound more hard housish or deep and scary.

I prefer deep and scary myself, so resonance is not a tool for me most of the time. Now, if your plugin is able send a bit of the velocity to the filter cutoff, so when sequencing, squelch is introduced to accented notes. Use a quick attack and a quick release on your amp envelope, tho a slightly open release can sound kinda cool too.

The final step is of course heavy syncopated, almost arp'ed sequencing characteristic of psy and goa, as these styles were originally developed using old roland gear and/or analog sequencers. Add tape distortion and a bit of delay to get some additional sound and time manipulation.

When this method has payed off (please work at it, the sound sculpting, that is), read any of the rich online resources on compressors and sidechaining and bass-ducking to get the icing on the cake. And never EQ to add to a sound, only EQ subtractively, as it makes the mix sound like crap later and will never really make up for a weak sound...

As long as you have one decent analog emulator, you are really a lot closer to the sound you want than you realize.

[hoffy]

I hate the attitude of "teach a man to fish blah blah blah". I know heaps of people that have gone out of their way to share their knowledge and experience with less experienced people (like me ). And its funny that the people who share the least, also tend to know the least. Mabye if they were more forthcoming with their tips other people would be too...

Just a thought. I mean, if someone did offer their patches to another person, and that person then used them in all his tracks- it wouldn't say much about that persons own music, and i would doubt anyone relying solely on other peoples sounds for their music are going to find much success with it (although mabye they don't care). And if someone does learn (from you or somewhere else) all of your studio tricks, surely that would just inspire you to learn some new ones?

Rant over. I did a music production course here and hooked up with a guy who has since gone on to release heaps of records on a variety of local and international labels. He helped me out heaps- Gave me patches, showed me techniques, taught me how to use some of the prog's i'd never tried before etc. etc. etc. And he's recieved a tonne of (deserved) success and is now living full-time off music.

Back on topic- I mostly get bass sounds out of an extensive and evergrowing library of samples that have pretty much all been edited via. Sound Forge and come from a variety of places (NordModular, VST's etc). Otherwise for a more rolling bassline type sound, i'll get Audiorealism's Bassline, render my patterns, then put them through SuperCamelPhatPro (being careful with the "magic EQ" knob). occasionally i'll use Amplitube a bit too. I compress bass pretty much exclusively using the Waves Renaissance compressor and EQ quite heavily with Equim or the Waves Renaissance EQ, if i need too.

I'm tempted to have a look at Trilogy soon.

[peanut]

[quote="VitaminD"]
well I've only heard a clip of the Ghb Remix but from that I'd say that your sound (if that is your sound) is near exact to that of neuromotor... and his sound is probably near exact to that of many others from the past.. but who cares? They all use the similar/nearexactsame sounds and effects and create something unique.

*snip*

I mean uhmmm... *ahem.. delete delete* im not telling you anyhting about my technique.. its been done a million times before me by other artists but I dont want you to sound just like me..

[/quote]

ghb rmx is nigh on a year old, and when the next ketuh comp arrives you'll see how far our sound has come since...

and i'm not saying i was never taught anything by anyone, or have never taught myself, and you've already seen i'm willing to share to an extent...but the reason i'm against the idea of presets or posting exact settings for mixing/mastering is that mixing/mastering-by-habit had me stuck in a rut for a long time churning out over-compressed, over-limited, over-additive-eq'd mixes, and i'd hate to lead someone else down the same road.

people are much better off weaseling their way into someones studio with one of their tracks ready to mix down, than scouring forums for eq presets...you'd learn about...7 million times more?

[VitaminD]

except when there are no other studios around and you've been struggling with that sound for years..

but fair enough.