ST2 XL guitar quality

[Squids]

Well, I am all for getting a real guitar and learning to play. I am not the best guitarist myself but I have a few around. One of my favorites that I like to write on is a Danelectro Convertible acoustic/electric that is similar to the Silvertone that Jimmy Page used use (lipstick pickups).

But, I don't know if you guys know this or think about it but some of the guitars we sample are worth $10-20,000 and up! We sample guitars from guys like Lyle Workman from Beck,Jellyfish,Todd Rundgren and Frank Black (among others) and other people who have super rare expensive guitars that you might not normally have access to. So, in terms of the tone captured you get some premium stuff that your friend doesn't necessarily have or sounds you can't get from your $400. guitar.

I am not putting one up against the other though. A real guitar is obviously more expressive in the hands of a good guitar player. If you are a keyboard player mainly then you'll be able to do much more with the Electric Guitar Capsule (for instance, I can do more with the capsule than I can with my guitars personally).

Even guitar players buy the guitar capsules though because they want the sound and ALSO something else- the flexibility of arranging with a sequencer. If you record a guitar part then you have to re-record it if you want to drastically change the arrangement of your song or at least the key and tempo etc. You could try time stretching it and all of that but with sequencing you don't lose any quality and you can have flexibility in the writing and arrangement like you can with all other sampled instruments.

Another cool thing? You can layer guitars and play it in real time with the Guitar Capsules (in fact, having the Acousic and the Electric Guitar Capsules together are really great for this). This is something you'd have to do by tracking and overdubbing with a real guitar. But, you can hear the layers instantly with samples... and you also have that flexibility of arrangement still (imagine if you overdubbed a bunch of real guitars layered and then wanted to change the tune around... a lot of work wasted!).

Like I said, it can be even just for mock up to "hear what it would sound like if you layered a Ricky 12 with a Fender Strat" on this tune or whatever. Or you can use it for the final depending on how it sounds and what you need to do budget/time wise. You know there are even in between note offs, fret slides, harmonics, mutes, chuckas and other elements on the capsules that allow you to get very realistic performances if you want.

I think I take it for granted that people think of these things. But, I think it is up to me to remind people of the value and usability of these type of libraries. Between Electric Guitar Capsule and SampleTank 2's AmpliTube fx you have maybe over $75,000 worth of vintage guitars and guitar amps simulated there! That kind of sound for less than a hunded bucks with all of the other added benefits I mentioned in the ways you can use it that you can't with a real guitar... well, I just don't think you can call that expensive! $79? That's the price of a single stomp box.

[Lunch Money]

But what about a good soundcard to record into, and a mic if you are micing the amp?

I'm assuming that the soundcard is already bought...? It's not just a guitarist that needs a soundcard! Ditto for the mic... if you're doing Linkin Park and Velvet Revolver, you probably already own a microphone or two....

And if not, use a direct line in and use an amp sim, which is what the original post suggested using anyhow (Amplitube and/or its incorporation into ST2).

It's like you guys refuse to believe how easy it is to get into guitar. <chuckle> Really, if you're going to be doing guitar-based music, get a guitarist or learn yourself. It's a valuable skill!

Let me put it to you another way-- I want to play some piano, so I use a keyboard. It makes more sense than trying to use a digital guitar interface to play piano, you know? It's just a different beast. I don't know why keyboardists and computerists want to insist on always doing things within the computer, when the real deal is sometimes easier! I've never had a lesson in my life, and I was picking up basic riffs and power chords within a few weeks. It's not like it takes a huge commitment or investment in time if that's all you want. But I'd be very surprised if you didn't get hooked and find yourself WANTING to practice more and get better.



A Sonic Capsule is still cheaper, but it doesn't come with Amplitube... thus bringing the price back up into the "more expensive than the beginner pack" territory.

Pretty pointless debate in some ways, though I don't mind debating anyhow-- as moneil has already considered both sides and sees merit in both.

Greg

[Squids]

If you think it is "expensive" then that already puts it out of reach. But, I think the product line is good for a wide range of budgets. For example, if you're composing for TV/Film then you probably have some budget and then ST2 XL is a great suggestion along with your choice of over 25 ST2 format libraries such as the ones I suggested.

But, if you are on a real low budget then for less than a hundred bucks you can get JUST the Electric Guitar Capsule or Studio Drums it comes with ST2 LE.

I gotta admit: I'm not really that low on a budget. I could afford Amplitube if I bought ST2, but I was just curious of how much Amplitube was incorporated into ST2. Thanks for answering.

I think I will still end up purchasing ST2 because I can already see it helping in future situations. I wouldn't want to be carrying a guitar and drums on an airplane with me I'm still going to use my friend for the guitar playing this time, but it's situations like those where I would like to use my laptop for a little bit of creative time. Plus with so many different sounds, I'm bound to come up with something that maybe I would not have initially predicted.

Another great example. Laptops. Or even just not having to mic up an amp. I used to have an AC30. (I still have an AC10 though). The AC30 was amazing. It was from 1964 with top boost. But, to get the best sound you had to crank it to 11! That's LOUD! You can't do that at any time of the day and night at home. But, you could with AmpliTube or a guitar sample in ST2 XL.

I think each person has to decide how they are going to use something and how they are going to work. I like options so I have guitars and samples. But, I work in music for a living at a professional level that affords me that opportunity. If I honestly had to pick and choose I would narrow it down to one versatile guitar (say maybe some kind of strat) and an cheap acoustic and some great samples in ST2... actually that'd be my bare minimum. The only reason for that is because I also actually like the challenge of pushing yourself to play the guitar and also the limitation of not knowing it as well can make you come up with some happy accidents. If I had to narrow it down further then it would be just my keyboard, samples and ST2 for my writing and just get a guitarist to play when I needed it. FWIW.

[Lunch Money]

Squids, you're one hell of a salesman. Heck, I see your points and *I* want to go out and buy the thing now.

I certainly respect you-- but there are definitely some things that I'd never want to sequence, and guitar is one of them. I was going to itemize particular techniques that would be tricky, but when I started making the list, I realized that even the most basic things like a simple strumming pattern would be tough to sound the way I like.

I can see how it'd be useful, though. And the layering idea you mentioned is pretty brilliant. I don't mind doubling guitar parts to get the real thing, but I can just imagine how rewarding and fun some of your suggestions would be.

Greg

[edited to add an 'n' to pattern]

[Caleb]

I was going to itemize particular techniques that would be tricky, but when I started making the list, I realized that even the most basic things like a simple strumming patter would be tough to sound the way I like.

Programming strumming is a bitch from hell!

Caleb

[Arglebargle]

I'm a musician, too; not just a guitarist. It's not just bias, but a simple statement that you'll be very hard-pressed to get a "proper" hard rock guitar sound out of a VST. At risk of overstating my case, I'll say that it's impossible.

Hmmm, yeah, sadly I've found this to be true. I've been considering something like Slayer 2 for my rock/metal needs, but I dunno.

IMO the electric guitar is perhaps the hardest instrument to sample and have it sound realistic.

[Beardedone]

I used to have an AC30. (I still have an AC10 though). The AC30 was amazing. It was from 1964 with top boost. But, to get the best sound you had to crank it to 11! That's LOUD! You can't do that at any time of the day and night at home. But, you could with AmpliTube or a guitar sample in ST2 XL.

I agree with most every point you make Dave. Please correct me but I have yet to hear any plugin that sounds close to an AC30. And certainly not Ampltube! The best Amplitude sound still lack the dimension that real amps have. It is great for portability and sequencing I agree but it ain't as good as the real thing.

[jeffn1]

I'm a musician, too; not just a guitarist. It's not just bias, but a simple statement that you'll be very hard-pressed to get a "proper" hard rock guitar sound out of a VST. At risk of overstating my case, I'll say that it's impossible.

Hmmm, yeah, sadly I've found this to be true. I've been considering something like Slayer 2 for my rock/metal needs, but I dunno.

IMO the electric guitar is perhaps the hardest instrument to sample and have it sound realistic.

You should also check out the demos of "Project 6: Lyrical Distortion" be Bela Media. It sounds pretty amazing to me. (sorry to mention a competitor, Squids, in your forum, but I think we users need to communicate freely about options).

jeffn1

[Arglebargle]

Actually, I recently dusted off my shitty guitar and I'm doing things the old fashioned way.

[midinut]

I think everyone is posting valid points. I am primarily a keyboard player. I started on guitar at age 7 and I know enough rhythm guitar to be dangerous (and I mean that in an unflattering way). I own a strat and an acoustic and have a GuitarPort to get them into my PC. Having played for years with some pretty good guitar players, it is really hard to get a sequence or arpeggiation to sound convincing. I usually will experiment with myself on guitar. In a perfect world I'd call up a guitar player every time, but that's not always possible when the muse strikes at 4am! But you know it's just as equally difficult to program good drum parts and good bass parts if you don't "play" these instruments as well. I was floored when I first saw Squids play his imapped drums in the online video. It sounded convincingly like a real drummer with an ego! But it was great! Maybe technology will advance over the next few years where we can use something like Band-in-a-Box to program the chordal structure of our tunes and have it generate the appropriate (and believably convincing) guitar, bass & drums into a MIDI file. THEN, we could assign all our wonderful ST2/SS2 sounds to the MIDI channels to fully utilize these wonderful libraries. Even better would be to see "randomization" take place (kinda like they're doing with the "melodyne" thing) to give it a more human feel and expressiveness. Wait a minute ... maybe we CAN do that today. Hmmmm!

Just my two cents worth.