KVR Audio

lsd · Post by **lsd** » Sun Mar 27, 2005 2:27 am

I own both Sonar 3 and SX2. I am planning on updgrading one of them. I mainly use VSTi's and need to use the freeze funciton of both audio fx and vst's. Any one have use either or both of these programs that can shed some light? Thanks...

Van Greco · Post by **Van Greco** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 5:29 pm

I just recently upgraded to Sonar 4. I quite like it and the freeze function is really handy for freeing up cpu. Of course you could always just apply things, but it's nice not to have to. I dont know much about cubase. Perhaps someone who uses both will be able to give a comparison for you.

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 6:57 pm

I found the two to be quite comparable in terms of mixdown time, I wouldn't decide between the two on the Freeze function alone.

If it makes any difference, I used to be a dedicated Sonar user, but I switched because I too use mainly softsynths, and I find the SX environment much more stable and easy for using VST synths (they invented them, after all, and you don't have to use a wrapper!) and I just find workflow to be more productive in SX. (just MHO! don't flame!!!)

kuniklo · Post by **kuniklo** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 7:16 pm

When you freeze in SX3 you have the option of unloading the plugins from memory after the freeze. This can be handy if you're using a plugin that eats a lot of ram like a sampler.

Not sure if Sonar does this. I don't think so.

Sepheritoh · Post by **Sepheritoh** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 7:29 pm

kunikio Sonar has an option setting to automatically unloads and frees memory when you freeze. I do not use SX, so it is better for me not to compare. In Sonar, the freeze does everything I need to and I have never had these VST problems that bduffy refers to. Maybe I am using a different kind set of synths and plugins. FOr me Sonar is as stable as I care to keep my machine.

A nice feature of Sonar's freeze is when you use multiple outs for synths, Sonar will render all the outputs to waves seperately with only one click. This is very usefull mixing down multitimbral synths, e.g. DR008 where different eq and reverbs are required for the different outputs. (somebody might want to comment if Cubase does the same).

LoRez · Post by **LoRez** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 7:30 pm

kuniklo wrote:When you freeze in SX3 you have the option of unloading the plugins from memory after the freeze. This can be handy if you're using a plugin that eats a lot of ram like a sampler.

Not sure if Sonar does this. I don't think so.

Actually it does do this...and then some. Sonar releases the plugins from RAM by default. Also, Sonar can freeze effects on tracks that have no virtual instruments at all. This seems rather flexible to me. Also, Sonar actually shows you the resultant audio data so that it can be edited without unfreezing and refreezing. Lastly, Sonar has Quickfreeze/quick un-freeze, which I believe is lacking in all other implementations of this feature.

lsd · Post by **lsd** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 7:32 pm

Which program takes advantage the Hyperthreading P4 cpu better? I wish there was an SX3 demo? This is hard to decide which way to upgrade. Sigh... I know the whole "this vs that" host thread gets old, but any comments are appreciated regarding SX3 vs Sonar 4. Thanks

kuniklo · Post by **kuniklo** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 7:33 pm

LoRez wrote: Actually it does do this...and then some. Sonar releases the plugins from RAM by default. Also, Sonar can freeze effects on tracks that have no virtual instruments at all. This seems rather flexible to me.

I stand corrected. Cake seems to have done a really nice job on the freeze in S4.

lsd · Post by **lsd** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 7:41 pm

Oh, which program is better suited for chopping up loops and syncing them to tempo? I know SX3 reads .rex and S4 does acid. I have alot of just plain .wav loops converted from akai format sitting around.

LoRez · Post by **LoRez** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 7:45 pm

lsd wrote:Which program takes advantage the Hyperthreading P4 cpu better? I wish there was an SX3 demo? This is hard to decide which way to upgrade. Sigh... I know the whole "this vs that" host thread gets old, but any comments are appreciated regarding SX3 vs Sonar 4. Thanks

This is hard to answer and maybe just "depends". However, I do know Cakewalk makes much of how multi-threaded Sonar is . In fact they have even mentioned making improvements to this in various updates since version 3 was released. Personally I get some benefit from hyperthreading...not much...but as much as can be expected from the implementation. I am honestly not sure how mult-threaded SX3 is...maybe someone can comment.

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 7:46 pm

SX does ACID too now, and has an amazing "Audio Warp" feature, allowing you to quantize audio in realtime.

And you do have the option of unloading/not unloading the plugs. I do like how you can Freeze the FX, I don't think you can in SX.

I had a lot of problems with VST instruments, I didn't like the VST Wrapper's clumsy interface one bit and I had trouble stabilizing/optimizing the Sonar engine after v2.0. Again, just my experience; no offense to people enjoying Sonar - it's a great app.

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 7:47 pm

bduffy wrote:I do like how you can Freeze the FX, I don't think you can in SX.

I was referring to Sonar, to be clear.

LoRez · Post by **LoRez** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 7:47 pm

lsd wrote:Oh, which program is better suited for chopping up loops and syncing them to tempo? I know SX3 reads .rex and S4 does acid. I have alot of just plain .wav loops converted from akai format sitting around.

You can turn your .wav files into acid loops in Sonar rather easily. Also, you can use the loop explorer to quickly audition acidized .wav's in their proper pitch and tempo while the song is playing in the background. A nice little hidden feature is that you can ctrl-click the loop explorer and you can get more than one instance of it so you can audition multiple loops together without actually committing to anything. Then there's Cyclone...

Sepheritoh · Post by **Sepheritoh** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 7:47 pm

lsd wrote:Oh, which program is better suited for chopping up loops and syncing them to tempo? I know SX3 reads .rex and S4 does acid. I have alot of just plain .wav loops converted from akai format sitting around.

Sonar has full acid loop functionality. Select a clip, ctl-L it and the clip is now an Acid loop that you can drag all the way to wherever you want it to loop and it will change pitch with your song.

LoRez · Post by **LoRez** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 7:49 pm

bduffy wrote:SX does ACID too now, and has an amazing "Audio Warp" feature, allowing you to quantize audio in realtime.

The warp feature does indeed look nice....hoping to see something like this in Sonar5.

Freeze: Sonar 4 Vs. SX3