KVR Audio

Kingston · Post by **Kingston** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 11:54 am

egbert wrote:a bunch of really expensive German microphones and a British mixing console and absolutely no Eq whatsoever, the way the good Lord intended.

I noticed that the M/S presets affected phase coherence considerably (reported by RME's DigiCheck).

There's no such thing as 'correct' phase coherency. When setting up M/S processing for mastering or full mixes (or anywhere really) there are only two things you need to worry about. Does it sound good? and how's the mono compatibility?

IainDearg · Post by **IainDearg** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 12:09 pm

Kingston wrote:
egbert wrote:a bunch of really expensive German microphones and a British mixing console and absolutely no Eq whatsoever, the way the good Lord intended.

I noticed that the M/S presets affected phase coherence considerably (reported by RME's DigiCheck).
There's no such thing as 'correct' phase coherency. When setting up M/S processing for mastering or full mixes (or anywhere really) there are only two things you need to worry about. Does it sound good? and how's the mono compatibility?

Hi Kingston - I understand what your're saying; however as I said it was on a stereo acoustic guitar track on which the M/S presets were applied. The coherence was reduced (I didn't use the term 'correct'), and yes, mono compatability was shot. It wasn't a criticism - it was an observation. I was interested in the M/S application because M/S microphone techniques are frequently used in solo acoustic guitar recordings.

Torben · Post by **Torben** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:32 pm

IainDearg wrote: Edit: I noticed that fine adjustmemnts are achieved with the <Shift> key - not <Ctrl> per the rest of the Gold Series.

Yes, someone pointed that out after we implemented the fine adjustment in the other plugins. All other plugins will of course get changed so they work like GAC-1.

Torben

Kingston · Post by **Kingston** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:50 pm

IainDearg wrote:I was interested in the M/S application because M/S microphone techniques are frequently used in solo acoustic guitar recordings.

Don't let the presets get to you. I hope you realise there is no way they can ever work in a mixing situation. They are only starting points, or suggestions of technique.

GAC1 is the best M/S set up on the market, you know. It will suit your application perfectly.

bmanic · Post by **bmanic** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 5:23 pm

IainDearg, it's important to understand what the M and S really stand for. If you listen to only the S signal(side, aka stereo information only) then digicheck phase meter will show 180'degrees and you get no signal when summed to mono. So, as you can see, it's a simple balancing act. The more gain you have on the S channel, the wider the stereo image will sound but the more uncoherent the information and less mono-compatible. The exact same compromises as in M/S microphone techniques.

Cheers!
bManic

M'Snah · Post by **M'Snah** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 6:20 pm

Kingston wrote:Don't let the presets get to you. I hope you realise there is no way they can ever work in a mixing situation. They are only starting points, or suggestions of technique.

I would love to agree on that, as I know that you must be right

. But for mixing newbies like me it really helps a lot to have a strong set of presets. I really wouldn't know where to start otherwise. (You might argue that I shouldn't own toys that I don't know how to operate, of course

).
Even when I just apply presets without additional tuning, some tracks already sound so much better...

--HansM

ATS · Post by **ATS** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 6:29 pm

Torben wrote:
Funkybot wrote: Have you ever considered creating a "Silver Series" of plug-ins? I was thinking it would be neat to create a set of small easy to use EQs and Compressors that fall somewhere in between the Gold and Classic series (and make em cheap).
I have thought about a Classic Pro Series!

jens wrote:thanks! Top customer service!
Thank you

Torben

Torben I would defiently be interested in a classic pro series. Please do that!!

egbert · Post by **egbert** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 6:39 pm

HansM wrote:But for mixing newbies like me it really helps a lot to have a strong set of presets. I really wouldn't know where to start otherwise. (You might argue that I shouldn't own toys that I don't know how to operate, of course ).
Even when I just apply presets without additional tuning, some tracks already sound so much better...--HansM

Torben has some discussion on what is going on with most of the presets in the manual - not the MS ones unfortunately.

There are some guidelines here and there to help you see what parameters could be adjusted to suit while still preserving the idea behind the preset.

IIRs · Post by **IIRs** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 6:39 pm

HansM wrote:But for mixing newbies like me it really helps a lot to have a strong set of presets.

Nope. The more you rely on presets, the longer it will take you to learn to set up compression yourself.. and that really is the only way to do it properly!

M'Snah · Post by **M'Snah** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 6:41 pm

Thanks egbert, for reminding me. I'm not used to reading manuals but indeed for the Kjaerhus series the manuals provide additional insight.

In contrast to a great many software manuals that only describe buttons and menus that were clear and intuitive right away ..

--HansM

Jaeson Merrill · Post by **Jaeson Merrill** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 1:46 am

platinumears wrote:
HansM wrote:But for mixing newbies like me it really helps a lot to have a strong set of presets.
Nope. The more you rely on presets, the longer it will take you to learn to set up compression yourself.. and that really is the only way to do it properly!

flawed.

presets give you a quick and general idea of how a sound is attained. its all how you look at it.,

StudioTan · Post by **StudioTan** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 1:59 am

Someone in here is "relying" on presets? I hope not.

I definately think they have their place though, but it's more a personal preference kind of thing from novice to advanced. Less of a preference and more of a learning tool for the novice. More of preference/less of a learning tool for the advanced, or maybe a starting point for both.

Personally, sometimes I'll run through them (depending on the plugin, of course) to get ideas or inspiration if I'm bored. But, most of the time I start out fresh. And ALL the time always tweak when starting from a preset.

M'Snah · Post by **M'Snah** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:04 am

platinumears wrote:
HansM wrote:But for mixing newbies like me it really helps a lot to have a strong set of presets.
Nope. The more you rely on presets, the longer it will take you to learn to set up compression yourself.. and that really is the only way to do it properly!

I missed your reply earlier. It's good advice.

I do need the presets to broaden my horizon and to understand and hear what can be done, otherwise I don't even know what to aim for, or what's possible. (Maybe that means that I shouldn't buy toys like this

, but I like to learn. And indeed the only way to learn is to experiment).

.jon · Post by **.jon** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:51 am

I have to tape a script reading for radio tomorrow, looks like the GAC-1 will get a good real-life test. I can also impress my fellow readers with a very perfect looking plugin

(We get to promote our cinema culture-NGO an a local radio show, so it's totally non-profit usage... I hope giving the plugin this sort of hands-on test drive isn't any copyright issue?)

Torben · Post by **Torben** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:01 am

pakana wrote:(We get to promote our cinema culture-NGO an a local radio show, so it's totally non-profit usage... I hope giving the plugin this sort of hands-on test drive isn't any copyright issue?)

No problem at all.

Torben

Kjaerhus Audio GAC-1 released!