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Stylus · Post by **Stylus** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 10:03 am

I can think out a good melody/solo but I can't WHILE playing on a guitar or keyboard

. My improvisation sucks and sounds utterly random

, although i'm really good at copying tunes. How can I improve on this?

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 10:33 am

Some random ideas (because it'd take all day long, if not several days to get into the details).

- Think about melodies first. Try to hum/whistle/sing a melody first. Then try to play it on your guitar/keyboard.
When improving with that, try it simultaneously.
Singable melodies usually will sound a lot more plausible than random noodlings.
In addition, this approach will (after a fair while of course) improve your knowledge about what you're playing (or going to play).

- Try to "milk" these melodies. Alter them slightly. Try to proceed with some variations. Think in "themes" rather than "need-to-blast-offs". The latter very often just are something for "musician's musicians" - the average listener's interest usually is caught way more by melodies and expression.

- Try to alter those melodic ideas soncially. Pitch bends, slurs, vibratos, etc. are all good things to make a simple thing more interesting.

- Try to alter them rhythmically. Just use the same row of notes and apply a different rhythmic pattern to them.
A nice idea is to setup, say, a simple 4 note melodic pattern (just any of your common guitar/key licks would do) and superimpose a different rhythmic pattern over it.

- Try using pickups. From my personal experiences, lines that actually lead you somewhere will sound more plausible than those starting and ending "anywhere". Pickups targeting a nice note usually help a lot.

- Try to concentrate on small, yet musically meaningful phrases. A nice way to get you there is something I'd call "call and response". You could for example just play some small fills each 2nd (or 4th, or whatever) bar. Having a vocal track with some space between the lines would be a great starting point. But you could also get away with any simple melody leaving some space for fill-ins.
Along the same lines, concentrating on small segments is a good thing to start with - such as a 2bar mini solo. OR a 4 bar one. Etc, you get the idea. The main thing being to make those mini solos sound plausible on their own.
When you proceed with that technique, you should allready have a good assortment of small melodic lines at your disposal.

That's it for now I think. If you want, I could post some small examples for each method.

soulata · Post by **soulata** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:20 am

good stuff.

i'd add: learn from the masters

(my problem seems to be just the opposite - while I can do solos it's much harder for me to come up with memorable melodies when I need them)

Peel · Post by **Peel** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 2:03 pm

If you're stuck in a rut (especially when your "thinking" seems better than your "playing"), try learning someone else's solo (one that's easy enough for you to learn with practice, of course). Learn the phrasings & fingerings as well as the notes (it's best to have sheet music/tab for this reason). Practice it until you can do it by heart. Then think about it, analyze it, try to apply parts to your own music, or whatever -- the important thing is learning to play it.
The purpose is not to copy someone else's style, but to get yourself playing some new ideas from outside your regular mindset.

xoxos · Post by **xoxos** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 5:23 pm

i been playin for 20 years, mostly off.. keep hoping i'll get better w/ age and no practice :p

my mind composes differently from my fingers on key or my fingers on strings.. for me, one of my biggest 'breaks' was when i stopped trying to play what my head wanted and started playing what was easy for my fingers.. then my fingers stopped fighting so much and result = sounds better!

mebbe another 20 years they'll be more receptive to head if not deaf by then :p

dgkenney · Post by **dgkenney** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 5:33 pm

Sascha Franck wrote:Some random ideas (because it'd take all day long, if not several days to get into the details)......

EXCELLENT ideas and words of advice! The only other things I would add is to practice your scales and arpeggios till they are second nature - so you don't have to think about them and you can hear/play the intervals. They can be great "connecting tools" to move you along. For the guitar I found the CAGED system helpful. You can find a good explanation of it in Bill Edwards' "Fretboard Logic."

Dan

declassified · Post by **declassified** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 5:56 pm

Sascha Franck wrote:Some random ideas (because it'd take all day long, if not several days to get into the details)......

Excellent ideas!

Two more:

- When you have a melody, try playing it with your right hand (of course you do...) and then try playing every chord you know with your left hand. Try chords with 6, 7, 9, 13. Try other keys (not the key you made your melody in). It will change the "colour" of your melody. Works especially great with the blues pentatonic scale.

- Sometimes I just sit on my piano and only play the higher tones. It helps because you won't "drift off" into lower ranges with your left-hand voicings where it'd sound too "muddy". Also, I end up playing more often when I choose to play in higher scales.

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:42 pm

Allright, as I am partially doing this stuff with my students anyways, I thought I could just post a few snipplets to demonstrate what I was posting earlier.

For all the examples I used a rather simply (you may call it lame...) Gmaj7 vamp. Very often I find it pretty tough to play something meaningful over an isolated major chord, so I thought it'd be some sorta challenge to demonstrate things with this because I simply couldn't just wank away.

- Melodic variations.
http://home.arcor.de/s.franck/stuff/MelVar01.mp3
You will hear a very basic two-part melody, first part ending on the maj 7th (F#), second part ending on the maj 3rd (B).
The melody allready features a pickup (on beats 3+4) which IMO makes it rather plausible.
Then you will hear some small variations, actually using the same melody with a few articulations and some added notes.
The third part is only featuring the "target" notes (F# and B), yet I think the basic melodic content is still easily to detect. Oh well, and I'm going up an octave, which is one of the most basic tricks ever.

- Pattern variations.
1)
http://home.arcor.de/s.franck/stuff/4NotePattern.mp3
A very common and probably wellknown pattern. 4 notes down in G maj scale (for the example I started with D), then 4 notes down from next lower note (C).
REALLY boring.
Then there's 2 variations, at first shifting the pattern a 16th note ahead (ok, I also altered the note lengths), then shifting it a 16th behind.
IMO these variations are allready fine to "losen" the feel, as the notes don't fall on the strong 8ths accents anymore. The variations are feeling "lighter" more "airy" or so. Yet, the pattern remains pretty much predictable.

2)
http://home.arcor.de/s.franck/stuff/4No ... nVar01.mp3
This time I applied some 4 part rhythmic pattern to the 4 part note pattern (16th, 8th, 2 offbeat 16ths notes).
It's allready getting less predictable and catching more interest (IMO at least).

3)
http://home.arcor.de/s.franck/stuff/4No ... nVar02.mp3
This time I varied the rhythmic pattern as well. Plus, I added some sonic variations (basically slurs). The same tonal pattern is used though.
IMO this is a good way to losen up stiff sounding tonal patterns.

- Pickups.
http://home.arcor.de/s.franck/stuff/Pickups.mp3
I just noodled around a bit, trying to reach each target note through some pickup.
Admittedly I could've done a bit better, but perhaps you'll get the meaning anyways.

- Call and Response / Fills.
http://home.arcor.de/s.franck/stuff/Response.mp3
I used the very same melody as in the beginning, ths time played by another guitar and tried to just fill in the spaces between the melodic parts.
I am still constantly practising these things, IMO this is one of the most important things to learn: Only play when nobody else is.
FWIW, very often this applies to rhythm parts as well.

- Mini solos.
http://home.arcor.de/s.franck/stuff/MiniSolos.mp3
In this case, I just tried to fill 4 bars with something more or less making sense.
In a perfect world, you'd just say everything there is to say in these 4 bars. Didn't exactly manage in my example, I still think it's a halfway valid demonstration though.

So far, cheers,
Sascha

Gargoyle · Post by **Gargoyle** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:54 pm

There are a couple of little books for guitar which could be recommended. I bought one for my brother, though should have got one for myself, called "BASIC GUITAR WORKOUT - 120 EXERCISES & MORE" which basically comprises little riffs, patterns or progressions which are designed to a) improve playing and strength and b) give ideas for improvs and c) provide structures around which you can vary your playing. The exercises are quite quick and self-contained. You might want to look for it or something similar.

dgkenney · Post by **dgkenney** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:04 am

Sascha Franck wrote: I thought I could just post a few snipplets to demonstrate what I was posting earlier.

Sascha

Nicely done.

What are you using for your guitar/amp set-up? I like the lead tones.

Dan

androidlove · Post by **androidlove** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:10 am

I just pretend I'm a superhero and it's up to me to provide my theme music.

McLilith · Post by **McLilith** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 6:28 am

androidlove wrote:I just pretend I'm a superhero and it's up to me to provide my theme music.

Yeah, things work much better that way -- than pretending to be a musician, and trying to summon superhero skills to compose a better song!

McLilith

TrekStar · Post by **TrekStar** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 6:46 am

thanks for the effort & your competent advice sascha!

...hey guys....did you realize that you received here a professional guitar/improvisation lession?

in real life you would have had to pay for that.

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 7:38 am

dgkenney wrote: Nicely done. What are you using for your guitar/amp set-up? I like the lead tones.

A Tom Anderson semi hollow body (you may know them, strat style, too expensive poser guitars but actually doing the job - plus, I just love the feel of it) through a VAmp with a bit of Logic reverb and StereoDelay on it.

TrekStar wrote:thanks for the effort & your competent advice sascha!

Glad you liked it.

- Sascha

Not improving on Guitar and Keyboard... much...