peace!
MP3 Therapy
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TotcProductions TotcProductions https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=6202 - KVRAF
- 5157 posts since 5 Mar, 2003 from Franklin, NH
Try the 4front Sandbrush VST...works wonders on lost high ends and transients due to mp3 compression
peace!
peace!
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- KVRAF
- 8080 posts since 9 Jan, 2003 from Saint Louis MO
Fat lot of good that will do when everyone is using hardware that plays either MP3 or WMA or AAC or OGG, and the only thing they all have in common is MP3.CC4 wrote:artists and musicians should really fight back and adopt another form of lossless audio compression.
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- KVRian
- 809 posts since 25 Apr, 2004 from Windsor, Ontario
i know where you're coming from, but it is a battle worth ensuing. we're really living in times of an industry going through a revolution. ...in terms of an iPOD, you can now save your CDs in iTunes using their new Apple Lossless encoder, which stores music at the highest quality but at about half the space of uncompressed files. i've been tinkering with the philosophy that artists should begin offering .MP3 downloads along with an alternate lossless form -- one worthy of adopting.foosnark wrote:Fat lot of good that will do when everyone is using hardware that plays either MP3 or WMA or AAC or OGG, and the only thing they all have in common is MP3.
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- KVRAF
- 3528 posts since 18 Apr, 2002 from British Columbia, Canada
OGG VORBIS!!!CC4 wrote:artists and musicians should really fight back and adopt another form of lossless audio compression.
sorry for shouting, but this is important!
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- KVRAF
- 3528 posts since 18 Apr, 2002 from British Columbia, Canada
on the topic of mp3 sound, sometimes it can help to eq before encoding. one of the ways that mp3 works is to get rid of frequencies that might be masked by simultaneous lower frequencies. try a low shelf on your wav and then encode, and try some diff settings ; maybe you get used to hearing what lows to whatch out 4 and then it gets as easy as pie, like banana cream. i love that.
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- KVRAF
- 12235 posts since 18 Aug, 2003
But Ogg Vorbis isn't lossless. Flac is lossless and free, and actually compresses a bit better than Apple. Using something like it should be high priority for musicians for collabs.spoonboiler wrote:OGG VORBIS!!!
Problem is, if that's what you deliver, who will listen? I once posted a bunch of Ogg files in the cafe and everyone was baffled by it. Most people don't want to have to go out of their way just to listen. "Aw, you mean I have to install something first?"
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- KVRAF
- 13444 posts since 14 Nov, 2000 from Hannover / Germany
Yeah well, it's really crazy people on this site don't actually believe in the advances of OGG, especially when it comes to collaborations.
Let's just agree that for most stuff you'll send around each other, super high quality isn't exactly required - so, lossless format are no must (at least not yet, one could still send lossless replacements later on, as soon as something gets more important).
Sidenote: For most things such as electric guitars, comping synths, pads but also basses and most vocals the quality of a decent HQ OGG (or even MP3 for the matter) file should be sufficient anyways as all those don't contain too much critical (read: to be f**ked up by compressing) information anyways.
Anyways, back to OGG advances:
- It's supposed to sound better than MP3 at comparable bitrates. YMMV on that though.
- It won't mess with your timing. And that's got to be THE most important thing when doing collaborations! MP3s will ALLWAYS add a bit of silence at the beginning of your encoded file. As a result you will find yourself trimming things permanently, setting up count-ins, so the receiving person could line them up properly, etc etc. All no issue with OGG.
OK, so, people start complaining "my host won't read/export OGG" (fortunately there's Tracktion, which means less people are complaining allready). So what?
You're into collaborations, fool around with MP3s and do other file conversions occasionally as well but don't have dbpoweramp allready?!? Freaking go and see your doctor! dbpoweramp is just the best en/decoder ever.
Integrating nicely into your rightclick context menu, converting a whole bunch of filetypes (even wave-to-wave, which sometimes makes it a handy sample format converter or mp3-to-mp3, should you ever need a LQ preview or so, or WMA, if that's what you're after, and even lossless formats such as FLAC, etc etc etc) and being free, there's no reason not to have it allready.
www.dbpoweramp.com - for those that don't know allready.
Oh, and another sidenote, partially relevant for those that collaborate through OGG/MP3 (quite some people don't seem to be aware of it):
A mono file only requires half the bitrate to be compressed as good as a stereo file with double bitrate.
So, 128/mono will just give you the same quality as 256/stereo.
Let's just agree that for most stuff you'll send around each other, super high quality isn't exactly required - so, lossless format are no must (at least not yet, one could still send lossless replacements later on, as soon as something gets more important).
Sidenote: For most things such as electric guitars, comping synths, pads but also basses and most vocals the quality of a decent HQ OGG (or even MP3 for the matter) file should be sufficient anyways as all those don't contain too much critical (read: to be f**ked up by compressing) information anyways.
Anyways, back to OGG advances:
- It's supposed to sound better than MP3 at comparable bitrates. YMMV on that though.
- It won't mess with your timing. And that's got to be THE most important thing when doing collaborations! MP3s will ALLWAYS add a bit of silence at the beginning of your encoded file. As a result you will find yourself trimming things permanently, setting up count-ins, so the receiving person could line them up properly, etc etc. All no issue with OGG.
OK, so, people start complaining "my host won't read/export OGG" (fortunately there's Tracktion, which means less people are complaining allready). So what?
You're into collaborations, fool around with MP3s and do other file conversions occasionally as well but don't have dbpoweramp allready?!? Freaking go and see your doctor! dbpoweramp is just the best en/decoder ever.
Integrating nicely into your rightclick context menu, converting a whole bunch of filetypes (even wave-to-wave, which sometimes makes it a handy sample format converter or mp3-to-mp3, should you ever need a LQ preview or so, or WMA, if that's what you're after, and even lossless formats such as FLAC, etc etc etc) and being free, there's no reason not to have it allready.
www.dbpoweramp.com - for those that don't know allready.
Oh, and another sidenote, partially relevant for those that collaborate through OGG/MP3 (quite some people don't seem to be aware of it):
A mono file only requires half the bitrate to be compressed as good as a stereo file with double bitrate.
So, 128/mono will just give you the same quality as 256/stereo.
There are 3 kinds of people:
Those who can do maths and those who can't.
Those who can do maths and those who can't.
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- KVRer
- 22 posts since 27 May, 2003
Sascha Franck wrote:...
A mono file only requires half the bitrate to be compressed as good as a stereo file with double bitrate.
So, 128/mono will just give you the same quality as 256/stereo.
This is not the case for compressed file formats, because they pay attention to left-right correlation, and if there is left=right, the whole bit reservoir is used for encoding of the mono signal (because they normally encode L+R and L-R, where L+R = the mono information and L-R = 0 for mono music, so no bits are wasted for encoding).
If one wants to offer lossless formats for people without having o install a codec first, one can use WMA9 lossless format, playable on every Windows Computer at least out of the box. Personally I prefer APE, then FLAC, then WMA lossless. And I avoid mp3 because of ironed transients, even at high bitrates.
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- KVRAF
- 13444 posts since 14 Nov, 2000 from Hannover / Germany
Well, my figures might have been not exact in a scientific meaning, but usually you can encode mono files at half the bitrate.
There are 3 kinds of people:
Those who can do maths and those who can't.
Those who can do maths and those who can't.
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- KVRian
- 809 posts since 25 Apr, 2004 from Windsor, Ontario
"iPod: Play MP3, AAC and Apple Lossless"
"winamp: plugins available for Ogg Vorbis and FLAC"
...if artists adopt the philosophy of offering alternate file formats along with .MP3, the hardware and software developers will eventually follow. it really is similar to the HDTV format battle - just deciding which one everyone will choose. (FLAC, LPAC, TTA, LA, Shorten, MUSICompress, WaveArc, Pegasus SPS (ELS-Ultra), Sonarc, WavPack, AudioZip, Monkey, etc. etc.)
"winamp: plugins available for Ogg Vorbis and FLAC"
...if artists adopt the philosophy of offering alternate file formats along with .MP3, the hardware and software developers will eventually follow. it really is similar to the HDTV format battle - just deciding which one everyone will choose. (FLAC, LPAC, TTA, LA, Shorten, MUSICompress, WaveArc, Pegasus SPS (ELS-Ultra), Sonarc, WavPack, AudioZip, Monkey, etc. etc.)
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- KVRAF
- 1651 posts since 14 May, 2002 from Earth
Agreed, 4Front Sandbrush is definately a good choice for this stuff.TotcProductions wrote:Try the 4front Sandbrush VST...works wonders on lost high ends and transients due to mp3 compression
peace!
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- KVRian
- 809 posts since 25 Apr, 2004 from Windsor, Ontario
i needed to revisit this thread and state the following:
Apple iPod Photo (30GB)
MP3, AAC, WAV, AIFF, Audible, Apple Lossless
Apple iPod Mini (6GB, silver)
MP3, AAC, WAV, AIFF, Audible, Apple Lossless
Rio Karma (20GB)
MP3, WMA, WAV, Ogg Vorbis, FLAC
Cowon iAudio G3 (1GB, Sky White)
MP3, WMA, WAV, ASF, Ogg Vorbis
Cowon iAudio M3 (silver, 20GB, with cradle)
MP3, WMA, WAV, ASF, Ogg Vorbis
iRiver H320 (20GB)
MP3, WMA, WAV, ASF, Ogg Vorbis
i think that should speak for itself.
Apple iPod Photo (30GB)
MP3, AAC, WAV, AIFF, Audible, Apple Lossless
Apple iPod Mini (6GB, silver)
MP3, AAC, WAV, AIFF, Audible, Apple Lossless
Rio Karma (20GB)
MP3, WMA, WAV, Ogg Vorbis, FLAC
Cowon iAudio G3 (1GB, Sky White)
MP3, WMA, WAV, ASF, Ogg Vorbis
Cowon iAudio M3 (silver, 20GB, with cradle)
MP3, WMA, WAV, ASF, Ogg Vorbis
iRiver H320 (20GB)
MP3, WMA, WAV, ASF, Ogg Vorbis
i think that should speak for itself.-
- KVRian
- 809 posts since 25 Apr, 2004 from Windsor, Ontario
it's much easier to download straight to a portable player versus downloading, burning, and labeling a CD of some KVRers tracks. if you want lossless audio compression on a portable player, you can currently only buy an iPod or Karma (from the cnet catalog that is). four portable players only offer the slightly better ogg vorbis.
without getting into major labels and their grip on distribution versus downloading as distribution, if netlabels are going to grow the other lossless formats will need to be adapted. its not going to start on the manufacturer's end unless the demand is there from artists offering the alternative formats. revolt! (i wouldn't put a FLAC without an MP3 offered beside it mind you).
without getting into major labels and their grip on distribution versus downloading as distribution, if netlabels are going to grow the other lossless formats will need to be adapted. its not going to start on the manufacturer's end unless the demand is there from artists offering the alternative formats. revolt! (i wouldn't put a FLAC without an MP3 offered beside it mind you).