KVR Audio

jerdude · Post by **jerdude** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 2:52 am

I have been experimenting with some preamp IR's that i downloaded from noisevault.com. They sound noticeably different in SIR vs. Pristine Space. For example... i loaded the neve IR into SIR and it sound surprisingly good but VERY treble-eee... like what you might expect from boosting 8-12k about 6db. I tried it on some vocals and acoustic guitar and i was pleased. When i load the impulse into PSpace... the rather extreme effect is gone. The shine that i got from the IR in SIR is totally gone. The PSPace effect is still usable... but its just not the same effect as in SIR.

Who is right?? PSpace is much more tweakable than SIR (which is virtually untweakable in comparison). Is it possible i have something checked or on or off that is causing the difference in PSpace?

I am really scratchin my head here.

Jeremy_NSL · Post by **Jeremy_NSL** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 3:18 am

first thing I can think of off the top of my head is are you sure the wet/dry settings are the same? If Pspace is mixing in alot of dry signal, that would account for a lessened effect.

greendoor · Post by **greendoor** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 3:22 am

In my experience, the Voxengo impulse plugins sound slightly sweeter than SIR (and for that matter, most Voxengo plugs compared to anything else). I wouldn't like to guess at which was more accurate though. The big delay in SIR gives it more time to crunch the numbers - but i'm guessing Voxengo probably has a more efficient algorithmn and possible is the more accurate one. Are you comparing at the maximum oversampling rate? It might be a bit duller on the lower settings.

I'm not convinced that using convolution of preamps is a good thing. Try a paramatric eq first, or maybe a saturation effect if you want colour. At least you will have faster control over the sound.

jerdude · Post by **jerdude** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 5:21 am

floyd wrote:first thing I can think of off the top of my head is are you sure the wet/dry settings are the same? If Pspace is mixing in alot of dry signal, that would account for a lessened effect.

the dry dignal is totally muted.

and so is the dry signal!

so this would mean that i am hearing all wet signal.

hmmmm.

jerdude · Post by **jerdude** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 5:32 am

greendoor wrote:In my experience, the Voxengo impulse plugins sound slightly sweeter than SIR (and for that matter, most Voxengo plugs compared to anything else). I wouldn't like to guess at which was more accurate though. The big delay in SIR gives it more time to crunch the numbers - but i'm guessing Voxengo probably has a more efficient algorithmn and possible is the more accurate one. Are you comparing at the maximum oversampling rate? It might be a bit duller on the lower settings.

I'm not convinced that using convolution of preamps is a good thing. Try a paramatric eq first, or maybe a saturation effect if you want colour. At least you will have faster control over the sound.

ummm.... sweeter do you mean more presence?? or do you mean richer. i am definitely getting less presence compared to SIR.

yes, a parametric eq will give you exactly what you dial in. but if you know what a particular preamp IR gives you in terms of frequency response or color... and it helps to make a particular track (acoustic gtr, electric gtr, bass, drums, vox, loop whatever) sound better in the mix.... then i don't see what is "wrong" with using it.

The Neve impulse in SIR sounds really really good on acoustic guitar.... it gives it a creamy shimmer and some other pleasant intangibles that really sound good. i was surprised at how much i liked it.

i just don't get why the same impulse sounds so much different in PSpace.

Aleksey Vaneev · Post by **Aleksey Vaneev** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 6:07 am

jerdude, the answer is simple: SIR distorts your audio when you apply that impulse. Pristine Space does not. You may try using Warmifier or Lampthruster after Pristine Space - I think you'll get the same 'creamy shimmer' effect.

Space Boy · Post by **Space Boy** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 6:18 am

jerdude wrote:Who is right??
I am really scratchin my head here.

Still using SIR?

Don't scratch your head - use Convo Boy instead.

With the minimum latency setting Convo Boy is ideal for Pre-amp IRs and so much more easy to use.

Plus, the licensed version comes with a 7 band EQ on board that allows you to independently pan each frequency band - make it as bright or dull as you like.

wsaidah · Post by **wsaidah** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 8:00 am

jerdude wrote: When i load the impulse into PSpace... the rather extreme effect is gone. The shine that i got from the IR in SIR is totally gone.

I am really scratchin my head here.

this is what i did! load dirac in a wave editor load sir plus the neve impulse capture the new impulse

mandolarian · Post by **mandolarian** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 8:25 am

Aleksey and Space Boy back to back. Wow! How impulsive of you two! But, sorry Space Boy you had an extra minute of latency.

jerdude, in the interest of scientific fairness, can you try Convoy Boy with your Neve IR and report back the results. Please don't make us have to do this on impulse ourselves!

wsaidah · Post by **wsaidah** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 8:34 am

i would hope that Aleksey would make a plugin for these type of impulses

Aleksey Vaneev · Post by **Aleksey Vaneev** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 8:41 am

wsaidah, i.e. the plug-in which will distort the audio in accordance with these impulses? Sounds funny.

Actually, I'm not interested here - if SIR sounds better to your taste why not simply use SIR?

wsaidah · Post by **wsaidah** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 9:00 am

Aleksey Vaneev wrote:wsaidah, i.e. the plug-in which will distort the audio in accordance with these impulses? Sounds funny. Actually, I'm not interested here - if SIR sounds better to your taste why not simply use SIR?

thats not what im talking about at all! im talking about a plugin that can load pre impulses like api or neve. something simple with one knob that controles the gain and selects the apropiate impulse at the same time,also make it user friendly so we can load new preamp impulses

Aleksey Vaneev · Post by **Aleksey Vaneev** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 9:25 am

wsaidah, I thought that Analogflux Impulse plug-in is the most appropriate plug-in for this. At least that was its main purpose - to process hardware impulses.

wsaidah · Post by **wsaidah** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 9:36 am

Analogflux Impulse would have been ok work around if it had more fxb space! but it only has 3 spaces. i would like to use the preamp impulses as a gain plugin with the Analogflux Impulse plugin i would need 28 fxb spaces for the neve preamp impulses in order to have my gain plug useing this work around.

tibenmik · Post by **tibenmik** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 2:06 pm

You should consider the sample rate that the impulse was recorded at. Those pre-amp IRs from Noisevault are sampled at 96kHz - when working at a lower sample rate you'll be able to hear how different plugs deal with the downsampling. IME, SIR produces errors when realtime downsampling 96kHz to 44.1kHz, whereas the Voxengo plugs are deadly accurate (go figure, as their r8brain is a top-drawer re-sampling utility). Therefore, the more pronounced difference you hear with SIR are actually artifacts related to erroneous re-sampling.

Having said that, I do find this effect to be useful on the right source; in my case I just copied the 'sound' of the IR into an EQ setting by feeding pink noise into both SIR and a parametric EQ, then a/b'ing between SIR and the EQ while checking a spectrum analyzer from time to time for visual reference. After a bit of tweaking, I managed to produce EQ presets that capture the 'character' of these IR's being erroneously downsampled by SIR...

_mt

SIR and Pristine Space