Convert Apple Loops to Rex?

[Jeremy_NSL]

Is it possible? Or do you need to recycle them from scratch?

[dazzer]

recycle 2.1 is your best bet...

[Jeremy_NSL]

thats the only way? recycling (properly anyway) is alot of work. And apple loops are already 'chopped up', with the slice data and midi data imbedded.

[Yossarian]

AFAIK, Apple loops are not sliced. They are aiff files with some extra data tags containing info about key, tempo etc.

They can be converted to Rex files but as has already been mentioned you need ReCycle to do it – at least if you want the Rex file to be stereo (Zero-X Beat Creator can output mono Rex files).

/Yoss

[jones-y]

AFAIK, Apple loops are not sliced. They are aiff files with some extra data tags containing info about key, tempo etc.

They're sliced. That data is included with the rest of the meta-data (key, tempo, etc...)

Remember, the same guy that invented Acid Loops did Apple Loops...

[Yossarian]

They're sliced. That data is included with the rest of the meta-data (key, tempo, etc...)

Remember, the same guy that invented Acid Loops did Apple Loops...

Are you sure? I was under the impression that Acid and Apple loops (like Ableton Live) don’t use slicing but granulation, which is a different technique.

/Yoss

[jones-y]

They're sliced. That data is included with the rest of the meta-data (key, tempo, etc...)

Remember, the same guy that invented Acid Loops did Apple Loops...

Are you sure? I was under the impression that Acid and Apple loops (like Ableton Live) don’t use slicing but granulation, which is a different technique.

/Yoss

I'm sure.

Here's a pic of the Soundtrack Loop Util (which is the same as the Apple Loop Utility) which shows the slicing functionality.

... the second tab, "Transients". This tab serves as a place to mark beats and other important points in the music. If SLU has never seen this file before, it will guess, and usually do a decent job. You may have to alter the mark setup, though. You can also define the transient division here, which will tell the application interpreting the file (say, GarageBand) how to musically read the audio. Different divisions can result in different interpretations; you can change it while playing the file and see what I mean.

Here's another which shows the metadata features:

[braj]

Transient markers aren't the same as slicing. Try slowing down an Apple Loop and you'll definitely see that they aren't slices.

[jones-y]

Transient markers aren't the same as slicing.

What's the difference?

[braj]

Transient markers aren't the same as slicing.

What's the difference?

I believe transient markers determine how the sample is stretched, while slice points are where they are sliced. So you can determine where a 'beat' of a sample will play with transient markers, but it is still time-stretched. Slices create muti-samples that are all played in the sample's original time.

[jones-y]

Maybe I'm wrong...

I know there are pitch shifting capabilities, but I thought the loops were sliced...

[Yossarian]

I don’t think it’s slicing the way ReCycle (or Phatmatik Pro) does it. It seems to be about adding embedded data, not actually chopping the sound file into pieces.

Did a bit of googling and found this article from Sound On Sound. Here’s an excerpt:

Ableton Live, Sonic Foundry Acid, Apple Garage Band, and the Native Instruments range of samplers are among the software products that use an alternative approach to altering loop tempos, known as granulation. These programs can independently adjust the tempo and pitch of an audio file without chopping the file into large chunks. The advantage of this approach over beat slicing is that you can often apply it transparently with continuous sounds, such as vocals and pads. However, depending on the nature of the material, and the amount that it's being 'warped', there can be effects on the sound quality. These audible artefacts are generally less serious than with less sophisticated time-stretching, and decent software will have various parameters that can be tweaked to get the best results. Granulation-based time warping is fast, needs no pre-processing by the user, is versatile and seamless for manipulating timing, and can be used in a track-based context like regular audio. However, it lacks the beat slicer's ability to trigger and manipulate individual components of the loop. Also, warping is a highly complex DSP task, so using this method is much harder on your computer.

Whether you call both technologies slicing or not, it seems pretty clear that ReCycle and Apple loops go about it in very different ways. The original post implied that it should be easy to convert an Apple loop to a Rex file as they’re both sliced which doesn’t seem to be the case. You still need ReCycle to make the Rex file and ReCycle will basically see the Apple loop as an aiff file, ignoring the meta-data.

/Yoss

[braj]

Maybe I'm wrong...

I know there are pitch shifting capabilities, but I thought the loops were sliced...

Try slowing the AL down way below their native tempo. You'll notice that they are indeed time-stretched. As are Acid files. You can pitch-shift a time-stretched file.

If they were slices, the samples would sound the same at any tempo, since you are just triggering the sample with no time-stretch.

[jones-y]

I stand corrected...

[BC]

Chris Moulios is working for Apple now?