Convert Apple Loops to Rex?

[jones-y]

Yes. Its old news.

[Markleford]

I believe transient markers determine how the sample is stretched, while slice points are where they are sliced.

No no no no no no. No.

1) A slice point tells where a sample is sliced.

2) A transient marker tells where a transient ("beat") is located.

3) Since you want to slice a beat on the transients, THEY ARE THE SAME THING.

How the sample is stretched (or not) is a separate matter entirely, not dependant on the particular spiffy name, and is up to the playback program used. And a playback program has the ability to use any number of algorithms to stretch the sound (or not).

Just because a slice is stretched or "warped" (as per the quote) doesn't mean they're not sliced. Call it "granulation" if you will, but granulation also works best with transient information intact. You can bet these slices/transients are still there for reference. Hell, SONAR does this automatically with Groove Clips at load time to any audio file.

Transient markers or slice points (you pick your favorite marketing-spin nomenclature) are both stored as metadata in the audio file. You can also put any other information in audio metadata, like the name of the engineer and what type of microphone he used... or the color of his dog's fur. The playback app uses this information AT ITS PREROGATIVE. It can stretch if it wants, or it can ignore it altogether. That's why ACID plays like a .wav and both AppleLoops and REX (1) will play like an .aiff

So AppleLoops in most instances (particularly with beats) *are* sliced, but that doesn't mean that the original data is not intact, and that doesn't mean it has to apply time-stretch/warp/granulation/pitch-shift/whatever if the player wants to or not.

- m

[Jeremy_NSL]

ok... after all that - there is no way to translate the *transient data* into rex2 slice points?

btw the way I interpreted Apple Loops marketing is its both sliced and timestretched. Sort of like Stylus RMX.

[jones-y]

The only app that can create Rex loops is Recycle. Plent of apps can read them, but only Recycle can create them.

If the Props allow another app to create Rex files, then they've just sold their last copy of Recycle, because it becomes unnecessary.

[Markleford]

ok... after all that - there is no way to translate the *transient data* into rex2 slice points?

I don't think Propellerhead will support Apple Loops: they're trying to keep REX2 as closed as possible. Unless someone picks apart the REX2 format and publishes it, you're out of luck unless you want to do a multi-step conversion, which would likely lose all the helpful info on the way.

Heck, I don't even think Recycle 2 knows ACID wav, does it? That's how pig-headed they are about it.

However, several apps write to REX (1) format, which is pretty much an open book. I imagine such apps will add AL import soon, if it's not closed as well. However, that means you'd have to convert to mono sound.

That is, assuming that Apple Loops format is open...

- m

[jones-y]

Unless someone picks apart the REX2 format and publishes it,

To the best of my knowledge, if someone did do that, they'd be breaking the law...

[Markleford]

To the best of my knowledge, if someone did do that, they'd be breaking the law...

If you notice, I never argued that point.

Honestly, it would be best for Propellerhead if someone did just that. Then they'd be forced to actually update Recycle more than twice per decade!

- m

[kuniklo]

Unless someone picks apart the REX2 format and publishes it,

To the best of my knowledge, if someone did do that, they'd be breaking the law...

Reverse-engineering is generally legal, especially if it's necessary to compete. There are plenty of examples of this.

[René]

Apple Loops are the equivalent to ACIDized waves. They're the counterattack of the evil side to such a popular format missing there

Basically, they're a standard AIFF file with some extra metadata. The extra information includes two important things:

1- Transient markers
2- Categorization, transpose, tempo and measure settings.

The transient markers include information on where the 'beats' are located, which -might- make easier the stretching of the slices when changing the original loop tempo.
Unfortunately, Apple didn't make public the headers for it so I don't know what else is exactly there. One might suppose it's identical to ACID, then some extra info on what stretching method should be used is also indicated.

REX, on the other hand, contains 'predigested' stretching inside. ReCycle uses a simpler-yet-effective stretching algorithm, consiting in looping the final part of a slice with alternate movement. Similar to Kontakt's, but well done

When you ReCycle a loop with the 'stretch' knob set to i.e. 50%, the stretching you're hearing goes recorded into the REX file as well. REX compresses the audio (lossless), so even with stretching and all the files are usually smaller.

This results in smaller overhead on playback and great quality when playing drums. OTOH, continuous material (i.e. vocals, strings, pads) suffer a bit more with this approach.

Propellerheads do not allow third parties to write REX/RX2/RCY files explicitly in their license, so I don't think you'll see apps to convert to REX unfortunately.

-René

[Jeremy_NSL]

yeah, rex doesn't stretch stuff perfectly... But rex in Stylus RMX Its pretty much perfect at almost any tempo/pitch.

[kuniklo]

Thanks for the great explanation René!

It seems to me that if somebody could come up with a good open specification for preprocessed loops they could sink both these greedy little ships.