File Sharing - My experience...

[aMUSEd]

If people could be persuaded to keep the content seeded for a bit, then the only problem to solve is authentication. How do you make sure that only paying customers get the torrent file, and how do you make sure that only those who got the torrent file legally (ie not a copy passed on by their mates) can get the content.

In our case, I'm not too worried about piracy of the content because all Tachyon content is encrypted and useless without the matching player (which would be shipped seperately). I'd just be worried that "curious" downloaders would steal away bandwidth from legit users.

Does anyone know about adding authentication to a tracker? I've seen some torrents that require registration at a website before they will work, does anyone know if that is easy to do?

Regards
Dave

I know it's possible but I don't know how. Sounds like a good idea though - the davantage of BT is it speeds up downloads and saves on bandwidth as it's far more decentralised and people are uploading while downloading. I think it's the way forward for larger legal downloads myself if companies can get over it's origins (as with mp3 etc). Seems to have good built in data error checking and resume capabilities too.

[Muon Software Ltd]

With the way that hosting companies charge for their services (in terms of GB's used and bandwidth consumed by visitors to the site), if you wanted to put up a comprehensive sample library for download, you'd have very high costs indeed for both the space and the downloads. It would also nail the server flat if you got a spike in traffic.

Bittorrent sounds like a great way to solve the problem - you don't need to keep any files on your webserver, you could seed them to a few mirror boxes instead on regular (cheap) DSL connections. You don't use any of your precious/expensive website bandwidth either because all downloads go through your mirror box DSL connections or through the connections of your seeders/downloaders.

Now, I wonder how many mirror boxes you'd need though to guarantee a certain level of service (download speed) to your customers...

Dave

[TankGirl]

I'm interested to see if Bittorrent could be used to distribute large amounts of sample data - say you want to sell a rompler, at the moment there's no choice but to ship a CD to the customer. Have to wonder if something like Bittorrent could be used to distribute a CD's worth of content online.

In theory, certainly, but there would be no advantage in distributing the CD on BT unless it was very popular (and since your data would only be of use to legal downloaders, there's not much chance of that ).

Unlike other download methods, BitTorrent maximizes transfer speed by gathering pieces of the file you want and downloading these pieces simultaneously from people who already have them. This process makes popular and very large files, such as movies and television programs, download much faster than is possible with other protocols.

Of course, it only works if other people actually have pieces of the file available for download.

Downloading pieces of the file at the same time helps solve a common problem with other peer-to-peer download methods - peers upload at a much slower rate than they download. By downloading multiple pieces at the same time, the overall speed is greatly improved. The more computers are involved in the swarm, the faster the file transfer occurs because there are more sources of each piece of the file. For this reason, BitTorrent is especially useful for large, popular files.

With small, intermittently downloaded files (and a CD is miniscule by BT standards) the download is as slow and unreliable as on any other P2P protocol.

Furthermore, if, as seems likely, you were often the sole seeder (source) of the data, the transfer would use up just as much bandwidth as any other file transfer protocol. The availability of the file would also depend on your constant seeding of it.

BT is for gang-bangs. Hundreds or thousands of people download the same file simultaneously and the transfer can be very fast indeed.

I was a member of a BT live concert sharing website that was recently shut down by over-zealous lawyers. We only shared live recordings of bands that approved of this sharing (and there are many). Copyright material was explicitly banned.

Downloads of 192kB/S were commonplace.

Does anyone have any experience with setting up trackers etc.? are there any ways in which a tracker can authenticate (username/password?) a downloader?

This can easily be done, and downloads can be authenticated by embedding a "passkey" in individual torrents.

However, there's one other crucial thing you need to understand: There are two reasons that people seed (upload) on BT. The first reason is that most BT clients force them to upload as long as they're downloading, and ensures that the speed of their download is proportional to the speed at which they're uploading.

The second reason is that BT websites keep statistics on their users and enforce certain ratios between up and downloading.

A ratio of 1 means you've uploaded the same amount as you've downloaded. A ratio of 95% means you've downloaded more than you've uploaded and you're often penalized by having to wait 6, 8, or 24 hours before downloading newly added torrents - more, if your ratio's even lower.

Your account may even be deleted if your ratio sinks below a certain level.

Without these incentives few people would bother seeding files at all once their download had completed.

And since you could employ none of them (at least, not if you wanted to have any customers left ), I don't think that BT is really suitable for what you have in mind.

[stefancrs]

But on the biggest tracker, www.thepiratebay.org, none of those rules apply. When I've tested downloading a popular torrent file there (think like 200 seeders), I have had speeds over 2Mbyte/s.

[TankGirl]

But on the biggest tracker, www.thepiratebay.org, none of those rules apply. When I've tested downloading a popular torrent file there (think like 200 seeders), I have had speeds over 2Mbyte/s.

That's precisely because, by your own account, piratebay is the biggest tracker, and because of the way BT works, the rules that smaller sites need to employ would be counterproductive.

When thousands are queueing up to download torrents, there's no need to force anyone to seed, as the present downloaders are always seeding as they download.

On a smaller site with perhaps a hundred members, the dynamics are very different - hence the enforcement of ratios.

[archiveofeverything]

The only real problems with BT and p2p is the fact that a) unpopular files have to be reseeded, which is irritating as this can take time and effort (and generous people willing to stick up a reseed
and b) the fact that there are still significant amounts of virii in seeds which cause (obviously) problems to downloaders. I have even experienced virii in legitimate downloads (obviously from illegitimate sources).
The BT idea is a great one, but still not a solution that is totally foolproof.
And I want someone to come up with an idea for a webcast idea that is sorta based on BT. The idea of sharing bandwidth over many users computers and using any spare bandwidth that people had to help the smaller badwidth users. Its a complicated idea, but could work in theory I think...
It would be great for bands wanting live performances etc...

[stefancrs]

Coldnews: the seeding is not an issue when the seeding is up to the company or whatever putting the files online for download.

[haydxn]

this is a good idea.

whilst there is a lot of validity in what you are saying about the number of people involved, etc.. ; if it's a big sample library not that many people are going to be buying it legitimately at once because it's specialised.

but just think about the group-buy phennomenon that's been going on lately. it could be set up with different sale points. you could buy it on CD/DVD and have it posted to you with all the costs involved therein (packaging, shipping etc..) or there could be a 'group-torrent-buy', which can only take place if a certain number of people apply, and will commence at a certain time. that will reduce shipping/packaging like any download system, but will also have reduced server 'cost' because of the methods used. clearly it would begin slowly, but then gradually it will get quicker as the download progresses.

i don't know how easy it is to set up tracker authentication, but uknova uses it- i use that to get hold of british programs that i missed, so it's not too 'darkside'. you could always give them a shout and ask how it works.

[Katanaman]

Also, in terms of music, paying $15 for an album, means your gonna listen the shit out of it, cause you better get your moneys worth. Usually my favorite albums/songs are ones that I hated the first few times I heard them. At play # 23 I wouldl suddenly falll in love. I dont think that would ever happen to free mp3's. You would just not play them, or delete them.

I feel the exact same way. Paying money for an album somehow makes me appreciate it more(as long as I don't pay TOO MUCH money)

[stefancrs]

That's just fooling yourself. Musics quality has nothing to do with its price. It's like buying rotten food, but for lots of money, and hence appreciating it, eventhough you'd normally just throw it away.

I have no problems making an "effort" to really listen to free music. If the albums you guys really love would be worse to you if they were free (but exactly the same music), you have some issues

[opiadream]

I fail to see the connection between file sharing and bigger hard drives
I'm currently in the process of recording alot of my old record collection to my computer and wouldn't a mind bigger hard drive now.

[bliss000]

but just think about the group-buy phennomenon that's been going on lately. it could be set up with different sale points. you could buy it on CD/DVD and have it posted to you with all the costs involved therein (packaging, shipping etc..) or there could be a 'group-torrent-buy', which can only take place if a certain number of people apply, and will commence at a certain time.

Nice idea