Q about minimoog feedback, overdrive and emphasis

[pekadan]

Warning Nerdy question ahead...

When using the external audio feedback "trick" on a minimoog (built-in feature on the minimonsta and miniV VSTis) and turning the level up to overdrive, what does filter emphasis (resonance) do in this process?

I can hear on the monsta that a signal without resonance gets very "nasty" while a signal with quite a high res. level stays pretty smooth even when heavily overdriven.

Can someone please explain the theory (in words preferably)?

[pekadan]

I didn't think it was that hard! (ooh, that phrase sounded very familiar - must've heard it before )

Was this a stupid question perhaps... or maybe everyone's fed up with the minimoogs already...

[Hermetech Mastering]

i only use hardware analogue synthesizers, but in that case, feeding the overdriven output back into the input of a vco-vcf-vco patch results in "more of everything".

in this case (the overdriven feedback patch), changing the filter resonance (which is just a simple feedback in itself) will result in "extra resonance" which may well be much stronger/more uncontrollable than when you use the resonance normally (without the extra feedback).

why do you need to know anyway? if it sounds good, USE it

[pekadan]

Ok, but that's the opposite of what I hear though. Much resonance gives a smooth more "controlled" overdriven sound while with low (or no) resonance, the sound goes berserk when overdrive kicks in.

Of course I don't need to know, but I like to learn. I'm curious about this and I'm thinking I might be able to create more interesting patches using feedback and overdrive if I understand how the effect works. Just turning knobs, pressing buttons, listening and hoping for a lucky tweak isn't the best way to program synths I find (not always anyway and it depends on the synth).

[Hermetech Mastering]

yep, totally agree with you. the problem is, ALL filters, whether digital or analogue, will behave in a slightly different way.

e.g. some filters, when you turn up the resonance, decrease the gain of the bass to a large extent. others will BOOST the bass. this can occur with all frequency ranges.

the best way (BORING i know), is to just experiment with what you have at the moment, and really try and work out what is happening by listening to the result.

my moogerfooger filter really really really cuts the volume when you turn up the res, whilst my old ms-20 filyer didn't.

when playing with feedback patches and introducing crazy aleatoric feedback paths into the equation, the ability to predict just what will hapoopen goes down LOADS.

experiment, have fun, and don't worry too miuch about the theory. what sounds GOOD and what sounds BAD to you? these are he most important things to learn.

[Dave Blakely]

The reason you get a smoother sound using resonance on the Minimonsta is mostly due to the way the Moog filter or emulated Moog filter on that plug works, even without feedback on try turning up the resonance and notice the bottom end dissapearing(something i and the other sound developers for this plug had to battle against), when feedback is enabled the fact that your boosting frequencies around the cuttoff point with the resonance and cutting the other part of the frequency spectrum and then refeeding this back in makes for a thinner sound .If all frequencies under the cuttoff point were being fed back in ie: with no resonance then the filter is getting driven harder and sounds fuzzyier. Does that make sense?, its all really a matter of trial and error, different filters react differently to the same basic patching strategy thats why they all sound different but your right, it pays to know the basics instead of just hitting and hopeing

[pekadan]

darkflame23 and Dave,

Thanks a million for that info! I understand now why it's "more ears than numbers" when it comes to using filters, Q, feedback and overdrive. I knew I had something to learn about this!

I'm happy you bothered to answer the nerd! (but with big glasses?). Again, THANKS!

[electro]

The reason you get a smoother sound using resonance on the Minimonsta is mostly due to the way the Moog filter or emulated Moog filter on that plug works, even without feedback on try turning up the resonance and notice the bottom end dissapearing(something i and the other sound developers for this plug had to battle against

Is this behavior considered to be a development flaw, or is it representative of the particular Moog modelled by Gmedia?

[Hermetech Mastering]

my real moog filter exhibits this behaviour - turn up the res and the bass disappears, i've heard this is common with moog LPF's.