Cakewalk Adapter tempo-sync problems

[Ben [Camel Audio]]

Hi,

[I posted this message over at the Cakewalk forums, but haven't had any response, so I thought I'd try here.]

I'm developing a new plugin, which is causing some issues when wrapped in Sonar (using v4.4.3 of the adapter). Tempo sync works fine in Nuendo, FL Studio, etc, etc.

In Sonar, if I wrap it normally, tempo sync does not work (my plugin is always told that its 120bpm, and other info is not returned correctly). However, if whilst scanning the plugins, I select the relevant plugin and tick the box marked 'Configure as tempo-based effect', then it works correctly.

Is this normal - do you always have to tick this box manually when wrapping tempo synced plugins? (My friend tells me this isn't the case - but perhaps this is different in v4.4.3? - I've noticed that the help documents for Pluggo tell the users that they have to manually check this box for each tempo sync'd plugin.) If anyone could confirm one way or the other, that would be very helpful.

If this is not normal behaviour, if anyone has appropriate developer contact details that they could PM me, that would be great.

Thanks
Ben

[mayan]

Ben - the vast majority the plug-ins I've used have not to be specially registered. A couple had to be manually checked though - one was an effect that had to be registered as a DXi synth; one was an effect that had to be registered as a tempo-based effeect.

[Markleford]

Is this normal - do you always have to tick this box manually when wrapping tempo synced plugins?

From my experience I've always had to check that manually. OhmForce FX plugs, for instance.

EDIT: On the other hand, VSTi (instruments, specifically), get tempo automatically.

- m

[kp]

Always manually check it.

[Tonmann]

AFAIK there is no status flag in the VST API that let's the host "detect" if a particular plugin needs tempo synch, or not. Cubase seems to offer such info to each and every plugin you add as insert or send, which doesn't seem to cause any problems.
I don't know why FXPansion/Sonar have decided not to do so, but ticking "add as a tempo-based effect" in the folder-defaults options shouldn't harm.

cheers,
Chris

[Ben [Camel Audio]]

From my experience I've always had to check that manually. OhmForce FX plugs, for instance.
EDIT: On the other hand, VSTi (instruments, specifically), get tempo automatically.

Ah - that's what I was beginning to fear. Looks pretty certain then that effects plugins need it checked manually, given that OhmForce and Cycling 74s plugins need it checked.

I can almost feel the mountains of support emails coming in

AFAIK there is no status flag in the VST API that let's the host "detect" if a particular plugin needs tempo synch, or not.

Well, you can ask the plugin canDo("ReceiveTempoInfo"), or something similar. If you find that returns true, then you could automatically check the box. Hopefully this is something Cakewalk will support in future.

Thanks
Ben

[Markleford]

I can almost feel the mountains of support emails coming in

FAQ!

And for the installer, check for Cakewalk registry keys to add an additional warning message to the user.

Also, once the VST is installed as DX, you could have the user run a little exe to poke the right registry keys to flag it as tempo-sync.

Anyway, perhaps I'm basing my observation on old assumptions: I haven't re-registered all of my VSTs in a while, so maybe the adapter does support this by version 4.4.4

I'll clear my reg entries tonight and retry fresh.

- m

[Tonmann]

Well, you can ask the plugin canDo("ReceiveTempoInfo"), or something similar. If you find that returns true, then you could automatically check the box. Hopefully this is something Cakewalk will support in future.

What about writing them a small note about this issue? Maybe it would be a good idea if a plugin developer would do that as he could provide more technical details.

cheers,
Chris

[kp]

I think it's "receiveVstTimeInfo" that the plug-in needs to be asked whether it supports. It's also a change to the config utility, not the adapter dll, which is good.

[Rabid]

I think this may have been done for efficiency. When trying to squeeze every cycle of CPU performance from a system, why send information to a plugin if that information is not going to be used? I'm just not sure how much CPU power is saved and if it is worth it on today's fast computers. And now, other than reverb it is hard to think of a plugin that does not use tempo sync.

Robert

[wrench45us]

ithought it was a limitation of the DXi specification, but I may be confusing this with something else.

the scuzzphut gating fx are the ones I always have to remember to check as tempo-based effect

i think it was Dxi receiving midi data I was thinking of -- why microTonic sent midi out to another drum synth in Sonar doesn't respond or accept has something to do with the DXi specification

[Rabid]

If I remember correctly it is a limit with DXi1 but not DXi2. From memory, the origional OhmForce effects were created in DXi1 and do not support tempo sync. They never updated the plugs and many people bought them only to find they would not sync. My OhmForce plugs are VSTi and they wrap very well for me in Sonar which sees them as DXi. The wrappers will cross to DXi2 specs and support tempo sync.

[Ben [Camel Audio]]

Hi,

Thanks for all the feedback and comments.

What about writing them a small note about this issue? Maybe it would be a good idea if a plugin developer would do that as he could provide more technical details.

I think it is a good idea. I've already have posted a message on the Adapter forum suggesting that they change things a bit:
http://www.cakewalk.com/forum/tt.asp?forumid=29
Unfortunately I've no response yet. I don't have the email address of the relevant developer at Cakewalk, so I can't email them directly.

I think this may have been done for efficiency.

I suspect you're probably right. However, my solution involving asking the plugin if it wants tempo information would only cause extra CPU load where it really did want that information.

If I remember correctly it is a limit with DXi1 but not DXi2. From memory, the origional OhmForce effects were created in DXi1 and do not support tempo sync. They never updated the plugs and many people bought them only to find they would not sync. My OhmForce plugs are VSTi and they wrap very well for me in Sonar which sees them as DXi. The wrappers will cross to DXi2 specs and support tempo sync.

I dare say you are correct about the limitations of DXi1. However, tempo-sync does work just fine with my plugins, it just requires some manual intervention when registering them. Given that the VST spec does provide the capacity for a plugin to indicate its interested in receiving tempo info, I can't see why my suggested solution wouldn't work.

Thanks
Ben

[KLG]

I'm not sure whether it's useful but Cakewalk has this feature request page here:

http://www.cakewalk.com/support/featurerequest.asp

And the technical support e-mail for the VST Adapter:

adapterhelp@cakewalk.com

I don't think their staffs check the user forums at all, maybe except the SONAR forum.

[Markleford]

Just cleared my plugin registry and rebuilt from scratch with Cakewalk VST Adapter 4.4.4

NONE of the VST FX automatically checked their "Configure as tempo-based effect" box. Then again, I don't have that many FX:

Frohmage
Hematohm
LowBit
Mobilohm
OhmBoyz
Ohmygod
Predatohm
SIR
StereoFaker
SuperCamelPhat2

For the record, the path to the plug in the Adapter's registry settings is:

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Cakewalk Music Software\Cakewalk VST Adapter\Inventory\<VST-DLL-FULLPATH>]
"registerAsTempoBasedEffect"=dword:00000001

So maybe you could just have a little exe that writes that value in there and point to it in a FAQ.

Good luck!

- m