Alan Parsons on compression - from the man himself...

[jens]

can there be anything more dynamic than e.g. 'a dream within a dream', Genesis blablabla', 'the great gig in the sky', 'us and them', etc.?

"Your Possible Pasts", from Pink Floyd's album "The Final Cut", comes to mind.

speaking of 'the final cut' (not produced by AP though) I'd rather mention the title track and 'the gunners dream'...

[McLilith]

You are most likely correct, my brain is trained to favor certain types of sounds... like everyone else! If, for example, I and others enjoy overcompressed sound why should we call it universally terrible?

That's an interesting point. I suppose we shouldn't condemn heavily compressed albums as universally terrible, but perhaps they should come with warning labels?

There is some justification for the idea. A very heavily compressed album more easily causes hearing fatigue. When played at the full capacity of your particular sound system, it can also more easily cause permanent hearing impairment.

Now, before everyone starts telling me that it's the fault of whoever plays their music too loud, if they impair their hearing, just remember that I'm not suggesting the music not be played at all. Just provide a friendly reminder on the cover that the record is of nearly constant level, and that listening to such a recording at high volume, especially over an extended period, is more likely to cause permanent hearing impairment.

Those that want to avoid heavily compressed recordings will know not to waste their money on the album in the first place, and the rest of the world will probably beat a path to the record store, to purchase the damn thing. Sales would probably actually skyrocket, from all the young people wanting to show their lack of concern for permanent hearing loss, and rebel against what's considered "sensible" by what they perceive as those antiquated, self-proclaimed authority figures who placed those silly warning labels on the albums.



McLilith

[McLilith]

speaking of 'the final cut' (not produced by AP though) I'd rather mention the title track and 'the gunners dream'...

Yes, that's a nice pair.

I always wanted a better copy of "The Hero's Return (parts 1&2)". They only put part 1 on the album, and I only have a scratched up 45 single, which has both parts 1 & 2 on the "B" side. I think that song is much more interesting, if you get the chance to listen to both parts.

take care,
McLilith

[Evan]

McLilith, a communication gap is always present whenever people argue over art

I guess I am not that sensitive to be annoyed by overcompression assuming it's not totally out of context (like squashing an orchestra as opposed to a death metal band). I may not be judging dynamics in terms of amplitude only... the spectrum balance of a mix can play a part also I believe.

An overcompressed death/thrash metal track could probably push the whole spectrum to the red beginning-to-end generating a wall of noi... sound.

An overcompressed pop song might also be at a constant -1dB amplitude wise, but the frequency distribution of the sounds would more likely be more pleasant to the average ear.

We can analyse this issue forever really. I still think it's important to agree that there is not a single rule to a single perfect result. I have seen many people looking for this well hidden secret that will transform their mixes to masterpieces. I do love to hear what talented producers do in their work and I have total respect for them. But we need to take this information as a sidenote and use it to improve our own special personality, not try to sound exactly like somebody else. There are no laws to perfection.

[McLilith]

There are no laws to perfection.

...except that it must be perfect.



McLilith

[jens]

speaking of 'the final cut' (not produced by AP though) I'd rather mention the title track and 'the gunners dream'...

Yes, that's a nice pair.

I always wanted a better copy of "The Hero's Return (parts 1&2)". They only put part 1 on the album, and I only have a scratched up 45 single, which has both parts 1 & 2 on the "B" side. I think that song is much more interesting, if you get the chance to listen to both parts.

take care,
McLilith

now that's interesting! I didn't know at all that there's a part 2 - thanks for the heads up!

(I'm downloading both parts together right now )

[McLilith]

now that's interesting! I didn't know at all that there's a part 2 - thanks for the heads up!

(I'm downloading both parts together right now )

Then, you might also want to know about the "B" sides of "When The Tigers Broke Free", and "Radio Waves".

The B side of "When The Tigers Broke Free", (a song that was dropped from "The Wall" album at the last minute, because it was considered too personal by David Gilmore), contains the film version of "Bring The Boys Back Home". Actually, both songs are from the movie. "When The Tigers Broke Free" also makes a good example of a song with good use of dynamic range.

The B side of "Radio Waves", contains "Going To Live in L.A.", which doesn't appear on the Radio KAOS album, and fills in a few little gaps in the Radio KAOS storyline.


take care,
McLilith

[jens]

interesting indeed!

tbh I don't have Radio Kaos - listened through it in a shop about fiveteen years ago and didn't like it very much - loved both 'final cut' and 'pros and cons' at that time (still do) - then came 'amused to death' played it for hours but today I actually only listen to 'it's a miracle' sometimes - that's a wonderful song!

[SJ_Digriz]

interesting indeed!

tbh I don't have Radio Kaos - listened through it in a shop about fiveteen years ago and didn't like it very much - loved both 'final cut' and 'pros and cons' at that time (still do) - then came 'amused to death' played it for hours but today I actually only listen to 'it's a miracle' sometimes - that's a wonderful song!

heh, I pretty much only listen to "Bravery of being out of range". But I occassionaly put this on just to be reminded how good a CD can sound. There are some good songs and moments on it but it takes too long between to get to them.

[jens]

heh, I pretty much only listen to "Bravery of being out of range". But I occassionaly put this on just to be reminded how good a CD can sound. There are some good songs and moments on it but it takes too long between to get to them.

'the bravery' sounds too formulaic to me tbh...

but yeah, I agree - 'amused' has it's moments but overal...

[IIRs]

I think a lot of Rock music is enhanced by compression and other studio techniques. I think that's one of the reasons that most rock bands suck live. They are too damned lazy to "produce" there live sound.

Hmm. I reckon one of the things that makes a good live rock band so exciting is the large dynamic range.. thats why the only things I routinely compress in a live mix are the vocals. I tend to keep a compressor patched into the bass channel, but it stays bypassed until i decide i need it.

[McLilith]

- then came 'amused to death' played it for hours but today I actually only listen to 'it's a miracle' sometimes - that's a wonderful song!

Yeah, that's one of my favorites from that album, but I like "Three Wishes" just a little bit more. Maybe it's just the story line that I feel some personal connection with.

I would say that Amused To Death would be an excellent example of a well-recorded album. It's hard to think of anything remotely similar to pop music which would be recorded noticeably better. We could possibly come up with some classical or jazz albums which might arguably be better recorded, but I doubt they would ever make the recording of Amused To Death look poor.

I'm not an expert on classical, but I have this album:

Wagner: The Ring Without Words:

I think it's also an excellent recording. If you listen closely, in between some very loud crescendos, you can actually hear some very faint page-turning sounds, in Siegfried's Death and Funeral Music.

There's no way, that this music has been overly compressed.


take care,
McLilith

[SJ_Digriz]

I think a lot of Rock music is enhanced by compression and other studio techniques. I think that's one of the reasons that most rock bands suck live. They are too damned lazy to "produce" there live sound.

Hmm. I reckon one of the things that makes a good live rock band so exciting is the large dynamic range.. thats why the only things I routinely compress in a live mix are the vocals. I tend to keep a compressor patched into the bass channel, but it stays bypassed until i decide i need it.

That's a bit out of context. I have heard an endless parade of bands now that when you hear them live you would swear it's not possibly the band that made the CD. Sometimes it's even to the point where you wonder how the hell anyone could find a song anywhere in the mix at all. Maybe the most extreme example, unfortunately not the only one, I took my daughter to see Crede (she begged and begged and begged). OMG the guitar player can't even play the f**king guitar and the singer was a piss drunk shit head.

[jens]

- then came 'amused to death' played it for hours but today I actually only listen to 'it's a miracle' sometimes - that's a wonderful song!

Yeah, that's one of my favorites from that album, but I like "Three Wishes" just a little bit more. Maybe it's just the story line that I feel some personal connection with.

no, you're right - it's actually wonderful as well...

there's something in the air
and you don't know what it is
you see someone through a window
who you've just learned to miss
and the road leads on to glory but
you've used up your last wish
your last wish
and you want her to come home

[McLilith]

Hmm. I reckon one of the things that makes a good live rock band so exciting is the large dynamic range..

Live rock band... large dynamic range?

I didn't think those two usually went together.

Transient response might be less smeared than many albums, and that is one way to measure the use of dynamic range, but a great many rock bands aren't exactly famous for arranging skillfully crafted, soft, medium, and loud passages into their music (another way to approach the discussion on dynamic range.) I like it when bands have excellent transient response in their recordings, and they also skillfully incorporate dynamic variations into their song structures.

I'm sure there are some recordings that I just love, which happen to be heavily compressed, but I doubt I love them because of the compression. On the other hand, there are some recordings where the music is possibly mediocre in my opinion, but I love the recording because of its pristine quality.



McLilith