KVR Audio

Jaeson Merrill · Post by **Jaeson Merrill** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 8:40 pm

Cabinfever wrote:hmmm.... lots of ex-acid users around. no wonder the sony acid forum is so dead. its really very sad how that app was mangled and destroyed. if you go back to acidpro 3 and then think where that app *could* have gone ....

more like Acid 2.

Z3R0T0N1N · Post by **Z3R0T0N1N** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 8:43 pm

why? what happened to it?
(non acid (music app that is...

)user here; not trying to argue)

jtxx000 · Post by **jtxx000** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 9:43 pm

have you tried the tracktion demo? i used to use acid as my main host but i switched to tracktion for my main work and now only use acid for beat slicing and time stretching. The workflow is the main thing that drew me to tracktion instead of other hosts because like acid it just makes sense.

billybk1 · Post by **billybk1** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 10:08 pm

Cripes, we can stop with all the VST wrapper non-sense. It is like beating a dead horse. This has been debated ad naseum, for years. It's a matter of semantics, quite frankly. The bottom line is does the VST implementation work or not! In Cakewalk's case it does. I have hundred's of VST/VSTi plugins wrapped with Cakes latest 4.4.4 adapter that work fine for me. Let me clue you in. Virtually all audio host apps with VST/VSTI compatibility have a wrapper of some kind, whether internal or external. Have a look inside Samplitude 7's, VST-DX folder....what do you find, a VST wrapper, "FxFdx30.dll" and a configuration utility named VSTConfig that looks very similar to Cakewalks (could they both have come from FXpansion, at one time, by chance

).
Take a close look in ACID Pro 5 or the new Sound Forge 8's program folders (both claim "native VST support"), you'll find "sfvstwrapp.dll". Even Steinberg's own Nuendo 2.2 has a VST wrapper for third party VST's(vstdx.dll 3.3.10.0 plugin wrapper)

Zacchino · Post by **Zacchino** » Sun Apr 24, 2005 12:08 am

Hey billybuck !

What do you have to add to my first original post ? I got all this VST wrapping thing, but it didn't help me to choose a real DAW... If you have some time, don't hesitate !

Z3R0T0N1N · Post by **Z3R0T0N1N** » Sun Apr 24, 2005 12:55 am

check out the new version of Energy XT
It really is a full on DAW now. And then some.

billybk1 · Post by **billybk1** » Sun Apr 24, 2005 1:01 am

Zacchino wrote: I'm a hardcore user of Acid Pro 5.0, and looking to learn another DAW...

Well, you know I'm a hardcore ACID Pro 5 fanatic myself

But, it is not the only app I use for music making. Selecting and using an audio/MIDI host app, is such a personal thing. That is why I never overtly advocate using one app over another. They all have their particular strengths and weaknesses. The only real way to find if an app suits your personal style, experience, workflow and perhaps more importantly, your studio setup, is to actually demo it, on your own equipment.

I've tested Sonar, but just didn't like its workflow. (Acid's power resides in its workflow especially).

I actually use SONAR 4, as my main DAW app. I've been using SONAR since 1.0 and Cakewalk's Pro Audio before that. So like my wife, she has kinda grown on me.

I've become very comfortable with the workflow, especially for multi-track audio recording, MIDI editing, use of softsynths and it's mixing paradigm. You are right though, ACID is unique, in it's workflow and for me is an inspiring music creation tool, in it's own right. Which is why I still continue to use it. But, I don't use it for it's MIDI or softsynths. That is what I have SONAR for.

I'm much into audio cuting, rerythming, crossfading, selecting shots recorded and cuting them, reassembling them, picking up the best part of any shots ... even if it's only lasting for 40 ms.

I honestly don't think it can be any easier or efficient as it is in ACID Pro, IMO.

You know, in Acid, zooming right in a wave file is as simmple as "Aim at the wave, roll in with your mwheel, and now you see your sample @ 1240x1024"

Yes, the mouse scroll wheel zoom is a truly unique SONY (ACID, Vegas, Sound Forge) feature. I wish SONAR had this, as well.

I'm having a lot of troubles with Acid because it's not working that well with GigaStudio (VSTi in Acid aren't that much well supported as far as I know).

GigaStudio VSTi? I am not very familar with GigaStudio. Many users seem to run it standalone.

Have you tried using another app rewired to/from ACID Pro 5, whose strengths are in the MIDI editing and softsynth hosting area. If your computer is up to the increased demands, it may be a viable solution.

HHaynes · Post by **HHaynes** » Sun Apr 24, 2005 1:29 am

billybk1 wrote:Even Steinberg's own Nuendo 2.2 has a VST wrapper for third party VST's(vstdx.dll 3.3.10.0 plugin wrapper)

Actually, it's a DX wrapper.

billybk1 · Post by **billybk1** » Sun Apr 24, 2005 1:59 am

HHaynes wrote:
billybk1 wrote:Even Steinberg's own Nuendo 2.2 has a VST wrapper for third party VST's(vstdx.dll 3.3.10.0 plugin wrapper)
Actually, it's a DX wrapper.

Well, I was half right

They are all using wrapper's, even DX wrappers. Even WAVES has to wrap their native DX plugins (with their own Waveshell-vst 5.0 wrapper.dll)to make them compatible with VST apps.

sascha · Post by **sascha** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 8:59 am

billybk1 wrote:Have a look inside Samplitude 7's, VST-DX folder....what do you find, a VST wrapper, "FxFdx30.dll" and a configuration utility named VSTConfig that looks very similar to Cakewalks (could they both have come from FXpansion, at one time, by chance

Since V7, Samplitude has native VST support. The fxpansion wrapper came with Sam 6 and it's simply been put in Sam 7 again for backwards compatibility or in the case someone's unhappy with our host thingie

metamorphosis · Post by **metamorphosis** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 11:56 am

deastman wrote:I'm an ex-Acid user too.

That is quite funny for some reason

Alan · Post by **Alan** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 1:23 pm

Don't all plugin formats have to be wrapped to communicate with Windows Direct Show? I'm pretty sure Windows doesn't read anything else natively.Anyway,Ron Kuper of Cakewalk did indeed claim Steinberg wrap their plugs for VST-Windows communication and the advantage of Sonars external wrapper means you don't have to wait for a program update to fix anything.

Rabid · Post by **Rabid** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 6:00 pm

I think you should try Sonar again. To me it is/was a great move from Acid because all my Acid loops just drop into Sonar tracks. I can even use multiple Acid loops in a single Sonar track.

Zacchino · Post by **Zacchino** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 6:58 pm

Err... I'm not using loops at all, but I knew this trick too. Cubase does this in its sx3 release !

nebulae · Post by **nebulae** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:52 pm

Cabinfever wrote:hmmm ableton...

i tried that a lot of times and came very close to buying. a few things made me decide not to. they included a bad cpu hit, rumours of poor rendering (i couldn't test it using the demo of course), so-so pitch shift results, so-so midi capabilities.

but the real decider for me was that while it was great for jamming and creating little looped chunks, it didn't seem to be very friendly when it came to song construction. as an acid user i liked seeing the whole song laid out, and while live can do that, the app is far more focussed on the clip arranging view.

that's not to say i am correct with any this, it was merely my impressions after heavy demo use...

I also used to bitch about Ableton's high CPU usage. The fact is that due to their realtime priority as a live performance tool, their cache settings are such that the CPU does take a hit. Having said that, version 4.1.2 isn't too bad on the CPU, and it's still a DAMN fast way to put song ideas together. Live's UI is also really good for building songs. It's elegance is in its simplicity in the arrange window, and the sounds you can get are really nice. For loop mangling, it's just beautiful, and it sounds like a natural exension of what you did in Acid with a whole lot more power.

As for how the mixdowns sound, I don't see any difference between Live's mixdowns and something out of Cubase or Sonar. Judge for yourself - http://www.chlorophyllworks.com/april8_f.mp3 - my latest track was produced and rendered entirely on Live. It was about 37 tracks of 24-bit audio, all midi and softsynths rendered to audio, except for Impulse (the built-in drum machine), with automation and effects on almost every track, and three total sends. On my P4 3.2ghz laptop, the CPU was at about 30-35%.

- Neb

PS - keep in mind this is an unmastered mix - straight output from live to 16-bit audio, then converted to MP3 via Lame.

Acid user looking to switch... Cubase or Samplitude ?