Ableton Live - wow

[lion_cub]

Thanks for the link

[Lunch Money]

Live doesn't mesh with my way of working. I approach my sequencer with the song already written, with specific ideas in my head already-- I know what I want to accomplish, what kinds of instruments I want to use, what kind of vibe I'm going for, and I have the tempo chosen before the recording already begins.

It's not that I'm not spontaneous, it's that the spontenaeity happens when I'm sitting around with my guitar, pen, and paper. I hum or sing the extra instruments as I go, and I can 'imagine' where I want the elements to fit in. My girlfriend cracks up when I'm sitting there with a guitar and I say something like, "OK, and here's where the breakbeat-ish part comes in" and start imitating drums with my voice. Then I'll say, "Can you hear the orchestral swell coming in now? <singing>" She thinks I'm nuts, and she can rarely understand what I'm accomplishing, but I hear it in me dome.

Which isn't to say Live isn't fun. It's loads of fun, and highly capable for experimenting and re-arranging, changing tempo, and trying new shit out.

But since I already know what I want to accomplish when I sit down at the DAW, most of that stuff is pointless to me. I suppose that also explains why I don't really value mute clips all that much.

Greg

[Link]

Yes, Live is more for a, umm, freeflow live way of working? Glad that one's settled.

[Lunch Money]

Hence the name. <chuckle>

[fitch]

you can get educational discounts on live too.. i know because i bought one when i was still a student..

fab software.. I use it when i'm writing with lots of loops .. i prefer the "play it like an instrument" approach..

logic only ever gets fired up if i'm doing orchestral stuff or transposing audio to midi

[jura]

I believe that way into "hell" is straight, but way into "heaven" is pretty complicated.

[Link]

Got it in one.

Hence the name. <chuckle>

[headquest]

In all fairness to Tracktion (which seems to be getting a bit slammed here) there are things it does like Racks that Live can't do. I love both, and would heartily recommend Live to anyone, but Tracktion is a great host and not just for engineers either. It removes many of the issues that other 'conventional' hosts have that makes it hard for a musician to just pick up and use. + and - exist for T and Live. That's why I use both.

I respect where you are coming from there, braj, but there are a couple of points that need to be added, I think:

Firstly, the Racks in Tracktion are there, so far as I can understand, to act as a "workaround" for a couple of Tracktion 1's shortcomings - namely, the lack of support for multiple-output VST instruments, and the lack of an aux send/return bussing system. Live 4 does not need racks as a workaround, because it does not suffer from the same issues as Tracktion. In terms of "modular madness" which racks also make possible, I believe that Live 4 users who are that way inclined tend to use Audiomulch or energyXT alongside Live.

Secondly, regarding Tracktion being aimed at engineers, I perhaps overstated that point before. However, while Jules quite clearly targeted musicians when he wrote Tracktion 1, under Mackie's management the emphasis has clearly shifted and it would be daft to deny that. The musicians using T1 were not crying out for broadcast .wav support, 64-bit mix summing or £1000 Mackie control surface support! On the contrary, they were regularly asking for an improved sampler, better timestretching, beatslicing, etc. The priorities have changed under Mackie's management and that should not really come as a surprise to anyone - they are, after all, the producer of pro-sound-gear!

[headquest]

Live doesn't mesh with my way of working. I approach my sequencer with the song already written, with specific ideas in my head already-- I know what I want to accomplish, what kinds of instruments I want to use, what kind of vibe I'm going for, and I have the tempo chosen before the recording already begins.

That's a really important point, Greg.

If you do not use your software for a music composing/creation environment, then a linear way of working such as Tracktion (or, in my case, Sibelius and Adobe Audition) will be better as your main tools.

Live is more suited for those of us who enjoy pratting about with sounds and composing music "on the fly", and exploring different approaches to an arrangement without copying/pasting all the time.

I personally approach music creation from both angles, which is why I have the range of software that I have. As a classical player I work best using Sibelius's notation as a starting point for linear composing. And Audition provides an outstanding audio recording/multitracking/editing/mixing/mastering environment.

[pHz]

Live doesn't mesh with my way of working. I approach my sequencer with the song already written, with specific ideas in my head already-- I know what I want to accomplish, what kinds of instruments I want to use, what kind of vibe I'm going for, and I have the tempo chosen before the recording already begins.

That's a really important point, Greg.
If you do not use your software for a music composing/creation environment, then a linear way of working such as Tracktion (or, in my case, Sibelius and Adobe Audition) will be better as your main tools.
Live is more suited for those of us who enjoy pratting about with sounds and composing music "on the fly", and exploring different approaches to an arrangement without copying/pasting all the time.
I personally approach music creation from both angles, which is why I have the range of software that I have. As a classical player I work best using Sibelius's notation as a starting point for linear composing. And Audition provides an outstanding audio recording/multitracking/editing/mixing/mastering environment.

(i write this as someone whose 2 main sequencers are T2 and live4)

youre both right ... but there might be more to it too ... i love using live for 'pratting about' and throwing ideas around but i have manged to get only VERY few ideas beyond that stage using the ableton app ...

... i get WAY more accomplished in T2 but i personally dont perceive tracktion as a totally linear sequencer ... maybe because i do very little audio recording / multitracking ???

the way i use T2 is very similar to the way i use live (and the way i used fl-studio previously) ... its object-oriented design and VERY slick navigation systems (as long as you remember the scroll wheel) means i can build / manipulate / (re-)arrange / layer patterns of varying lengths VERY quickly and easily ...

... add in the racks (BTW if i want live4 AND modular madness these days i just rewire ableton and T2 together) ... and the slickness of T2s interface in terms of access to features and freedom / flexibility of signal routing then i think to see T2 as a purely linear sequencer is missing the point a little ...

... the big difference for me between T2 and live4 is that while live4 is built for playing (i still feel the arrangement view is a tad of an afterthought and doesnt work as well as the main session view) its not quite yet a complete solution for easily arranging / finishing stuff ... tracktion seems built for this very task and IMHO does it at least as well as anything else ive tried ...

... thats not to say its perfect ... it isnt by a long way (and neither is live IMHO) but theyre BOTH relatively young apps and i hope to stay with both as they mature further (unless they get bloaty obviuously) ...

slainte rob

[Amberience]

Recently I read Stephen King's On Writing. He says somewhere in it that he writes situationally. He'll bring his characters together and discover what happens. It seems that I favour this method when composing too, rather than using a "plot" for my music.

[pHz]

Recently I read Stephen King's On Writing. He says somewhere in it that he writes situationally. He'll bring his characters together and discover what happens. It seems that I favour this method when composing too, rather than using a "plot" for my music.

this parallels the way i work too ... but thats obviously not to discount a more preplanned way of working (like gregs) as invalid or inferior ...

slainte rob

[GlitchB0t]

all three previous assessments are perfect.

It irked me that when Live4 came out, everyone was dissing it because "It can't do x or y like Cubase can", which IMHO is the totally wrong way to look at things. Live has a specific purpose, its the first app of its kind based on that conception, and it needs to be thought about as-such.

I never do any orchestral stuff in Live, for the same reason headquest stated. But Live wasn't *designed* for that, thats what traditional sequencers exist for

just my .02

[Amberience]

Recently I read Stephen King's On Writing. He says somewhere in it that he writes situationally. He'll bring his characters together and discover what happens. It seems that I favour this method when composing too, rather than using a "plot" for my music.

this parallels the way i work too ... but thats obviously not to discount a more preplanned way of working (like gregs) as invalid or inferior ...

slainte rob

Oh no, I didn't mean that at all I don't like plot in music or writing though. I'm much too a pretentious prick for that!!

[pHz]

I'm much too a pretentious prick for that!!

...

slainte rob