No, thanks, I'll just buy the instrument.

[Vegetarian]

I'm one of those people who buys synths because I want them to sound synthetic, not like a guitar or a string orchestra at all The only things I ever use soundfonts or whatever for are usually just for things where you couldn't obviously tell the difference if it was sequenced or not, like pianos, percussive instruments, etc. I want people to enjoy my music, not nitpick over how my sequenced guitar could sound more realistic, but that's just me (besides I can play guitar, i don't need a sequenced one!)

man do i hate getting the first post on a new page D:

[Lunch Money]

http://www.grizzly.com/catalog/2005/main/332.cfm?

Wouldn't that be more fun and pride-instilling than a new plug-in or sampleset? There are even cheaper electric kits that you can get (search evilBay for "Saga") but the Grizzly one is made with reasonable materials.


No, I don't work for Grizzly. <chuckle>

Vegetarian - absolutely good point. You're beginning with the end in mind, though-- you know what sound you want, and you know that you're using the right tool for the job.

[edited once to respond to Vegetarian, and once to eliminate an annoying amount of winky smilies]

[braj]

... A marimba would be really handy...

Gods I wish I had one of those...
.

I do

I want a midi marimba. So I can play guitar sample on it.

[Lunch Money]

I've never seen a MIDI Marimba with aftertouch. You need aftertouch to do decent guitar solos.

[morelia]

I certainly wish there was a (working) tool to record guitar line in to midi. I can play keys at all.

[No name]

To be honest, some people just don't have the time to learn a new instrument. Some people don't have the money to pick up a guitar, then an interface to record into the computer with that sounds decent (not to much noise and distortion). I fall under both categories, and since slayer or revitar is priced good, and since i wouldn't have to worry about the noise and problems recording into a mic with a guitar and then into computer, and also I already know my keyboard, as well as learning how to tune a guitar and stuff in the first place, then why not just by the software? But then again, I'm not doing rock or pop or any such thing so a real guitar strum isn't so important to me

[lawapa]

As a guitarist and someone who picked up the keyboard after the fact as you mension. I got into computers and began to sequence music. From the start I found it easy to simply enter in my notes with out the use of a keyboard after seeing the patterns in the piano roll view. As I progressed I began to sequence guitar as well. Why you ask? Well because I could. But before I could pull it off I first had to build soundfonts of guitars so I could do this and have the sound come out right. This may seem to be an exercise in futility seeing as how I can play the guitar but as with all instruments the more you know about that said instrument the better the emulation you can do. A case in point is violin. I did for a time take fiddle lessons. And when I decided to sequence this blue grass instrument I found that the articulations I needed to pull off a good fiddle tune were hard to come by. Same was true for guitar. So I endevored to make my own. But as with any tool the more you know about any instrument the better your attempt will sound. I think sax has the largest range of expression and therefore the biggest difficulity in a good emulation.

If this ramble has a point and it might, It would not be unreasonable to assume that a keyboard player could using a cheep guitar and a simple cord book with inversions and different positions for the most used cords enter strumed cords into a sequencer. With an eye for detail and tunes he likes as guides.

[o'malley]

... A marimba would be really handy...

Gods I wish I had one of those...
.

I do

I want a midi marimba. So I can play guitar sample on it.

[shamann]

Wouldn't that be more fun and pride-instilling than a new plug-in or sampleset?

The point in all this is that it would be for you, but maybe not for someone else.

In some old thread on guitar samples and physical modeling, someone asked 'why not just get a guitar, they only cost $150?' Well, what would be the point in having a guitar kicking around if you only ever touch it once a year for ten minutes?

[Stairsteps]

Well you can acomplish amazing things in this world, but only if you try, Ive heard plenty of bad guitarists and good ones too, Ive heard bad keyboard players and Ive heard good ones, the true test hear is to play, experiment and have fun, We musicans dont belive in the word "can't and you should'nt" the only thing I have to say is the good keyboard players out there can wipe the floor up with someone who is a bad guitarist and a great guitar player can never be topped by even the greatest keyboard player trying to emmulate them. The key is to never give up no matter what you do and enjoy the growing process which is music, noone have mastered music to the point of quiting.

There are a few programs out that will greatly improve your strumming on keyboards : MusicLabs Real Guitar : is one to look out for.

I am a Bass Guitar player and dabble in the acoustic Guitar realm as well and can say that nothing beats a great guitar player laid down properly into tracks.


Dayo of NJ Inc. Music * Communications
CEO and Exec VP of A&R Len Burke

[Lunch Money]

Wouldn't that be more fun and pride-instilling than a new plug-in or sampleset?

The point in all this is that it would be for you, but maybe not for someone else.

In some old thread on guitar samples and physical modeling, someone asked 'why not just get a guitar, they only cost $150?' Well, what would be the point in having a guitar kicking around if you only ever touch it once a year for ten minutes?

The first point is definitely fair. You're right, and some people won't ever have the interest. Absolutely can't argue with you there.

For the second one, though-- I would want to know more information before advising the person. For example, do they plan on having a strummed guitar or distorted chords (power or otherwise) very often? If so, I DO think a guitar is a better purchase. On the other hand, if it's a one-off, they're not likely to be spending the $150+ for the sample-set, either.

In most cases where it's not going to be an ongoing thing, I think the songwriter/composer is better off using a guitarist, anyhow. For an ongoing thing, I think it's worth the investment of time and money (less money than most comprehensive guitar libraries, which is the weird part) to learn the guitar instead.

lawapa - that's quite interesting! It seems to me that what happened was that your interest in the technology is driving you to see what you can accomplish with it, and that holds just as much interest to you as the end result. Which is a good thing! I've thought about recording guitar samples, too, mainly to teach myself how to create a sample set.

I think part of my confusion arises from the point Stairsteps raises-- why are some people seemingly dead-set against even trying? I wonder how many people fear the possibility of failure in embarking on the journey? I've heard tell of such things... in tales about faraway times and places... JK, but seriously, I am always excited and enthused about the possibility of learning a new thing with regards to music. I've never (that I recall) thought to myself, "yuk, I don't want to learn a new instrument." Au contraire, every time I find myself stuck ("a sax solo would be sweet here!") I find myself adding a new instrument to my list of things I'd like to learn some day. I hope that 'some day' actually happens, though!

Time is one thing, but it's an over-used excuse not only for this, but for many things. If we tallied up our wasted hours in a day, I bet we'd find a shameful amount of time that we could spend learning new things.

Greg

[Hink]

Please explain...I'm not sure I agrre with you. TBH I feel the opposite, with cleaner signals, more headroom and a lower floor I think digital had opened up untold ways to be even more innovative and creative playing live instruments...I think sometimes it's more like what doesn't get lost in the translation, but is more apparent digitally that brings down the sound...but alas we must blame it on technology and lament about the good ol' days...it's better then excepting the obvious....

Technique doesn't mean creative or innovative. Think of it only as the method available for working with something.

Get a trumpet. Blow into it. Think of all the ways you can blow into it, even if doing it wrong. Blow into it while changing the position of your lips, and tongue. Blow harder, softer, wetter. Think of all the things you can do to that trumpet outside of just blowing it normally. Stick a kazoo into your trumpet. Or a grapefruit. Smash your trumpet with a hammer, so that every time you blow into it, it produces several other resonant tones that have nothing to do with a trumpet sound.

Spend 10 years thinking of all the things you can do with a trumpet.

Now draw up a digital model of it all.

Digital allows for convenience, also allows you to do things differently, build sounds in ways impossible from before, allows you to work only with perfect takes, etc. But what is trivial in the real world, say the spit of a trumpet player, or the fat fingers of a guitar player, all that becomes very complicated in the digital domain.

Maybe one day when we all have our own holodecks we'll have perfect digital renditions of the trivial, but even then there will always be trade offs. Trade offs aren't necessarily worse, sometimes they actually make things better, but it would be foolish to pretend that trade offs aren't made when emulating something else.

I think I mis-understood you, I thought you to say "no matter how much technique you have as a player it will get lost whilst recording in the digital domain". Now that I'm clear I agree with you, especially seeing how I've spent a day or two playing gi-tar (but I have small, flexible hands)...

[Guckli]

We all make shortcuts where we feel it's needed and/or doable.
I've been playing piano since I was three and when I was five my mom got fed up with my endless kerplinky and bought me a guitar so she could send me to my room to play there (weren't any casios back then, thank god). So I'm almost equally at home at both instruments, still I couldn't dream of hooking up my guitar to do anything that isn't supposed to sound like a guitar; piano is #1 and I got several rows of keys to bang.
But I can't drum very well; you bet I use samples. I got one pad I use together with a piano pedal to record hihats, snares and fills and they do tend to get extensively edited afterwards. Never mind horns and brass...
As far as guitars go you're not bloody likely to develop your own signature sound if you don't play guitar as your first instrument. I used to have one spanish and one half-cheap electric with humbuckers, all my money going in the keyboard bin. You can probably imagine that I quite often didn't have the appropriate guitar sound available.
I solved that by buying a variax, earning myself the scorn of several "real" guitarists who use 49-key cheap-ass midi-controllers to record piano parts. Oh and I use a v-amp 2 from much hated Behringer as well. Damnation.

[Stairsteps]

I think my above post sums it all up, remember never say never, and always push the Fk$#@g envelope, we can figure out the winner if ever someone actually wins , but its the journey getting there that you'll remember the most. Peace and good nite.

(weren't any casios back then, thank god).

The Casio CZ-101 was and still is a great little keyboard

As far as guitars go you're not bloody likely to develop your own signature sound if you don't play guitar as your first instrument.

Not even remotely true but I bet you havent met enough muscians or interviewed enough to validate that claim.

Dayo of NJ Inc. Music * Communications
CEO and Exec VP of A&R Len Burke

[Hink]

my journey has been perfect, I care not where it ends ....all that matters is I still get the same thrill I did when I got my first guitar one hot July day in 1971...I never stop learning and I never stop yearning...