Every time I export an audiomixdown in cubase it sounds crap

[ericj23]

If davor wants to buy a CD he is probably pre-listening to 5 copies of it, to ensure that he gets the one with the best sound...

now that's funny - thank you

[davor]

people see (or hear) what they want to believe - your one of them

I believe what I hear. And if you are not able to hear the difference then there is no problem for you, as I sad several times already.

hope you learn one day -

Hope you hear one day.

[stefancrs]

Davor: Why do you hope that ericj23 hears errors that aren't there? All hosts sound the same btw. Atleast all major ones. A mixdown sounds the same as playing back all the tracks directly. If you hear differences, you hear errors that aren't there. Don't wish upon people that they also do the same.

[ericj23]

ok davor last chance tell me an exact example of where you hear the difference - specifics please of exactly wht you did in what ever host

otherwise shut it

[davor]

Davor: Why do you hope that ericj23 hears errors that aren't there? All hosts sound the same btw. Atleast all major ones. A mixdown sounds the same as playing back all the tracks directly. If you hear differences, you hear errors that aren't there. Don't wish upon people that they also do the same.

I don't wish upon anybody anything. I say for the hudredth time -- if you don't hear the difference then there's no problem for you. I hear differences, as do many top engineers and musicians. Just don't try to impose your mediocre ears as absolute truth.

http://www.johnvestman.com/DAWSUM.htm

[butter]

You didn't wear your helmet today, did you Davor?

Seriously though. Either start flashing some respectable credentials or just shut the hell up. After this thread you're never going to be taken seriouly on KVR ever again...

[davor]

ok davor last chance tell me an exact example of where you hear the difference - specifics please of exactly wht you did in what ever host

otherwise shut it

I tried most of the leading sequencers/multitrackers... Cubase, Nuendo, Samplitude, Tracktion, Muzys, Acid, FL Studio... and they all sound different. The same audio file sounds different in different hosts, as do virtual instruments, and the the resulting mixed down files sound different. Check out:

Davor: Why do you hope that ericj23 hears errors that aren't there? All hosts sound the same btw. Atleast all major ones. A mixdown sounds the same as playing back all the tracks directly. If you hear differences, you hear errors that aren't there. Don't wish upon people that they also do the same.

I don't wish upon anybody anything. I say for the hudredth time -- if you don't hear the difference then there's no problem for you. I hear differences, as do many top engineers and musicians. Just don't try to impose your mediocre ears as absolute truth.

http://www.johnvestman.com/DAWSUM.htm

You can get the basic notion of how the differences sound/manifest themselves, but if you don't hear any difference then there's no problem for you, and then there isn't anything you should worry about. Have you ever heard the saying --"Ignorance is bliss"

[zck]

mr vestmans comment that two hard drives can sound different is wrong

pure and simple

Yea. According to mr vestman software run from two different hard drives is also slightly different ? (How does the jitter degradation theory applies to software ??)

[davor]

You didn't wear your helmet today, did you Davor?

Seriously though. Either start flashing some respectable credentials or just shut the hell up. After this thread you're never going to be taken seriouly on KVR ever again...

Taken seriously by whom? These amateurs wannabes here who don't agree with me? Do you seriously think I give a damn about that? Those people whose opinion would matter to me would agree with me cause they've got a talent and a good pair of ears, and they've got serious credits in music business.

[stefancrs]

ok davor last chance tell me an exact example of where you hear the difference - specifics please of exactly wht you did in what ever host

otherwise shut it

I most of the leading sequencers/multitrackers... Cubae, Nuendo, Samplitude, Tracktion... and they all sound different. The same audio file sounds different in different hosts, as do virtual instruments, and the the resulting mixed down files sound different. Check out:

Davor: Why do you hope that ericj23 hears errors that aren't there? All hosts sound the same btw. Atleast all major ones. A mixdown sounds the same as playing back all the tracks directly. If you hear differences, you hear errors that aren't there. Don't wish upon people that they also do the same.

I don't wish upon anybody anything. I say for the hudredth time -- if you don't hear the difference then there's no problem for you. I hear differences, as do many top engineers and musicians. Just don't try to impose your mediocre ears as absolute truth.

http://www.johnvestman.com/DAWSUM.htm

You can get the basic notion of how the differences sound/manifest themselves, but if you don't hear any difference then there's no problem for you, and then there isn't anything you should worry about. Have you ever heard the saying --"Ignorance is bliss"

Podium, Cubase, Tracktion etc. All of these sound the same unless you apply different effects / settings.
If you use different panning laws, they will sound different.
If you use clipping, they might sound different dependant on clipping method.
If you use dithering, they might sound different dependant on clipping method.
If you use different bit depths, they will sound different.
If you use different audio rates, they will sound different.
If you apply different dsp algorithms of any kind, they will sound different (summing is not a different algorithm for different hosts, they all do it by adding signals together).

If you just compare summing, they will not sound different. They only sound different when you make them sound different. I do not need to try make money by selling host comparison audio cd's to test this. I know how to conduct such tests on my own, and I have. I'm an audio programmer. I know how digital audio works. I educated at the university in the dsp field. I know how digital audio works. There's a reason almost no one here agrees with you.

edit: fwiw, I'm not an amateur. I'm a professional. Digital Audio Programming is what I do for a living.

[MB]

Davor:

Let's assume we have two digital recordings obtained through mixdown of exactly same projects in two DAWs that sound different according to your claims. We have stored them in computer files that represent the digital data.

Many people have proven that these files cancel each other when subtracted in any wave editor (in other words after inverting the phase of one of them and mixing with the another one the result is digital silence, null). Yet, you are claiming they sound different.

Since we are talking about digital data, it's simply down to mathematical operations on numbers representing sample values, we are dealing with. Once again, we are talking about computers that work purely on the fundamentals of math, not magic. In mathematics, there is only one possibility that two sequences of numbers cancel each other when subtracted: they are identical. So, we have two identical files, and you claim they represent audio that sounds different. Would you please explain, how is it physically possible? Do you imply there is some minute information stored in the files that is no understood by the computer? I mean, do you claim there is some esoteric data hidden between computer zeros and ones?

[ericj23]

davor i wanted exact specifics of a time when you mixed some stuff down and could hear the differences

you just said the same old nonsense - all of which is second hand

the same old mixdown can sound different in different hosts - i never said they don't - it all depends on how the host deals with things like panning - truncation from 32 bits, drivers etc

but that doesn't mean that if files are added together at the same settings on different hosts that the results are not the same. the reason for the differences in the daw test is it is not 100% possible to match settings between hosts

this does not mean that the mixdown in one program is any different from what is played back live

this does not mean that the same file sounds different from differnt hard drives

m'kay

[mmdejonge]

Where's Robert Randolph?

[butter]

You didn't wear your helmet today, did you Davor?

Seriously though. Either start flashing some respectable credentials or just shut the hell up. After this thread you're never going to be taken seriouly on KVR ever again...

Taken seriously by whom? These amateurs wannabes here who don't agree with me? Do you seriously think I give a damn about that? Those people whose opinion would matter to me would agree with me cause they've got a talent and a good pair of ears, and they've got serious credits in music business.

You obviously give a damn because you're fighting tooth and nail about it. If all of these people are "amateurs" as you are inclined to think, how do you intend to prove them wrong? Again, lets see some credentials. So far all you've shown this community is that you have been blindly following the work of these two mastering engineers. Hell, I think Bob Katz is a genius but I'm not trying to convince everyone that the ground he walks on is holy. Composing, mixing and mastering are all completely subjective. Just becasue some guy got paid to master one of Sting's albums does not make him truth.

If you want to have a battle of wits you may as well do yourself a favor and step off the ladder right now.

[davor]

edit: fwiw, I'm not an amateur. I'm a professional. Digital Audio Programming is what I do for a living.

Unfortunately, or luckily for you, your ears are far from gold. I'm a musician, composer, guitarist, arranger and producer. I'm not a f**king programmer, I don't code software, I deal with music. If you cannot hear the difference between different DAWs, and that difference is actually not as small as that between the rendered file, and the mixdown inside a DAW, then we've got nothing else to discuss.