School Article...WAREZ, what is the effect of them...

[kevvvvv]

dramsenik

As i said before this wole thing is just about ethic.

Today it might.

But I don't believe that warez and the web will be the same in 10 years time.

I say this in spite of the claims of the macho crackheadz-can-bust-anything crowd

See as follows

three things will prevent warez :

- Digital Rights Management type systems embedded into all software and all operating systems, making warezing technically much more difficult.

- Improved tracing of IP addresses across the internet to quickly trace downloaders and uploaders so we know who is doing what, and when they did it

- Greater criminilisation of warez users, bigger penalties etc, eliminating the "wild west" culture of the web. In effect, punishing theft in a publicly visible way

The above is a tall order, and will take 5 to 10 years, but I suspect it will happen, because:

- Big business will pour billions into it to make it so, as big business are currently the biggest money losers.

- Government will make it happen as all governments have a big interest in controlling subversion and revolution

- Social groups will want it as the web is host to a lot of sick things that are "morally bad" for people.

What emerges from the above is that warezing is simply one aspect of "Controlling the Web"

Today we are living in a control-free halcyon age.

But it won't last.

[Urs]

Most of the pirates I know don't have a MIDI controller or anything better than an SBLive! that came with their computer. Most of them have pretty crappy computers, and the ones with good computers got them from their parents.

Yeah, but do they actually use the stuff to make music? Or do they - like Kevvvvvvvvvv says - only collect stuff...?

I remember this from the old days. I bought a synth XY or a mixing desk or an amplifier whatsoever, and I said to myself "uh, oh, now I can start making music! - But wait, uhm, I could start if only I could afford that other piece here...". And then I saved money for the next big investment.

Just, nowadays, many people cover their inability to make music by the need of the next piece of software. Stupid as it is. But if these people collect warez, I mean, who cares? They don't use any of it, because they don't have the grip to. No prob, poor people.

Another thing are those people who really gain value (impress girl friend, earn money, express themselves, have something to say). If these people use warez, I care (and believe me, I have lost so-called friends by this).

Cheers,

Urs

P.S.: Take with grain of salt, I'm drunk, been to a party, having a life after all...

[ross g]

If piracy didnt exist many of the smaller UK scenes wouldnt exist - no garage, no hip-hop, no deebee (or just less small artists), no underground breaks. In reality the entire underground dance scene in this country would die, excluding mayb house and ovaground breaks, (Oh and tech cuz its ful of old boyz). Its like not clearing small samples... This is simply because producers who make this music have no money, and they are from council estates all ova the country, where stealing for your needs becomes life. So stealing is actually fundamentally wrong, but only culture dependant. (If you dont like stealing then please burn any decent music you may have and start listening to Robbie, Hear say, and any big American artsts)

I'm a big American Artist...6'4", 240 or so, I lost some weight, not really sure. So I have to agree, you should burn decent music and listen to me...

In "reality " the entire underground dance scene was "stolen" from Americans by the British and sold back to us, much like blues and early rock music. Specifcally Chicago House (my home town) and Detroit Techno. I know this is fact because I read it somewhere. I always dug the more "techno" stuff but I'm not really sure what that means today, I'm one of the "old boyz". Too many silly sub-genres for my feebile middle-aged mind. I do know the music was created because the available tools, cheap (for the time) samplers, and mostly cast aside drum machines and 303's, dx100's, etc. So I do understand how the means justifies the "culture dependant" nature of musical styles and trends. I'm not some righteous innocent, I just know the icky feeling I got when I was caught stealing, the hand still in the cookie jar. I have justified taking things from "the man"as a disgruntled employee, and those damn yuppies can afford new lawn furniture. Looking back in my infinite and utterly mature wisdom, I realize an excuse is just that, but I do believe in degrees, up to a point. Whatever. Software is a lot cheaper than hardware was and there is a now a glut of cheap hardware because of the software. Bottom line is: if at this point in time you can't scrape a few hundred together for whatever gear and make some tunes, your'e just kidding everyone.

I ain't pointing fingers here so don't jump down my ass. (that's Yank for "Arse"... I know what you Brits think of us..."You Americans... with your Jacko... and your J.R. ... and your Ronnie Reagan...)

keeping the world safe for Democracy,
rg

[rawcan]

...
1. I tried it today. I went to the police station and asked if they had any commercial software I could steal but they didn't.
So what's the point?

2. I can't declassify myself any more. My name says it all.

3. And I know that you're german. Your name says it all

1. It's hard to imagine you really tried that, don't you? You understood me quite good. You're intelligent.

2. OK, that's your personal self chosen problem.

3. My name says it all? That is based on prejudice which is seldom a good source of advice. Hint: Try the american white pages.


Have a nice day, FRitz

[rawcan]

While all this chat has been going on I've just wriiten a f###ing great trance anthem on my trusty Vanguard Virus clone

Cool!

Can I hear it? I wrote something trancy yesterday, too. With my trusty z3ta+. My wife loves it so it's good enough for me.

[rawcan]

People who use warez'd audio software typically can afford

-> a fast, top notch computer...
-> a top notch midi control keyboard whatsoever...
-> a low latency audio interface...
-> a good home stereo or even a pair of nice monitors...

Just so you know, that is the least true thing I have read in this thread

Just so you know, this is among the dumbest reply you could give to such a thread.

Or the other way round: How many warez users do you know (besides you?)? I know quite some that sadly back up the statement Urs made, so...

P.S. Some of them even work at well known audio software companies.

Why?

I know plenty of pirates (and I'm not one, thanks).

Most of the pirates I know don't have a MIDI controller or anything better than an SBLive! that came with their computer. Most of them have pretty crappy computers, and the ones with good computers got them from their parents.

Just to reiterate, I know FAR more pirates than I know people who actually buy their software.

OK,

lots of people I know who USE audio software are crack users. As said, they nearly all have decent setups. You know, these guys who go to the shop to get another 512MB RAM stick inspite of buying the soft sampler which doesn't work cool enough without the new RAM stick.

[rawcan]

I'm just curious to know HOW MANY of you have actually Paid for you version of XPhome or Pro.
Not finger pointing here but I know heaps of people that don't use warez but quite proudly brag about not Paying for XP (which seems a bit hypocritical IMHO) .............

Sorry to iake it off on tangent I generally avoid threads of this nature like the plague as they tend to degenerate into very heated arguements.

Well, to make you happy: All software I have running on my computer is legal. I even bought windows, why not?

[kovacs]

1)...Can we control it in order to give manufacturers and software developers their due? How?

I don't think it can be controlled with the kind of distribtuon we have today. Perhaps if developers went down the path of offering only leased software on thin clients we would see an end of piracy, but that is not a likely future IMHO.


2)...Do you think the P2P user would purchase the software if it was not available as a crack? Or are they just browsers?

I think there are many kinds of P2P users. I used to download warez once. Eventually I got sick and tired of piling up software I didn't use so I bought my first legal software (FL Studio 3.x) and haven't looked back since - no more cracks. I have friends who keep asking if I have a license code for this or that and I never give it to them (I would be breaking a license agreement I willingly support) but I know they will be downloading the software via P2P anyway.

I think the majority of P2P users are not actually using the software they download. But I think they are helping the piracy trade by helping others get access to pirated software, since that is the way P2P works - the more sources the easier it is to get a copy of something.


3)...In your experience (or knowledge), what sites have the most readily available files for music software? music cds? for art software? for games?

I really have no idea since I haven't used a P2P program for over 2 years.

4)...with so many free resources (KVR) for free plugins, do you believe Music Software will become more affordable or that prices will continue to rise... ($2,700 for EastWest Quantum Leap Symphonic Orchestra Set and >$3,000 for WAVES DIAMOND BUNDLE come to mind)

The prices you quite are for pieces of software I would not expect bedroom producers to own. I think the majority of pirated software users have copies of sequencers and loads of plugins which they mostly do not use or even know how to use. ROMplers are less interesting due to the massive downloads.

I think the price of software these days is quite affordable. For those who claim it is not, they can get a copy of Computer Music, for example, and get a full studio for the price of a magazine.

So you're really using the wrong examples here. A while ago a developer of a program that cost $8 told us it had been cracked and distributed. That is not only plain stupid, but also incredibly mean to a developer. So price is not why programs are cracked. It is demand. As long as people are asking for pirated software, someone will be around to provide it.

[rawcan]

Rawcan wrote

P.S. Some of them even work at well known audio software companies. Shit! Shocked Confused Sad

I do not hope it is someone whos work I respect.

Don't try to ask me. I won't tell ya. Besides of stealing software these guys are really cool and my friends. You know, just people heh?

[kovacs]

I'm just curious to know HOW MANY of you have actually Paid for you version of XPhome or Pro.

One here. In fact, I bought my computer in bits and pieces and when I bought a motherboard, cpu and harddrive combo I could get XP Home bundled in for almost nothing.

[haydxn]

i paid for everything on my computer!

[stefancrs]

Stop calling piracy theft, because it isn't. It's two totally different kind of crimes. Both crimes ofcourse. Piracy is a copyright crime, theft is stealing something.

If I'd, from scratch, would code an operating system being exactly like Windows XP (by purpose or not), I would'nt have stolen anything. But I would've committed a copyright infringement, and could be punished for this. Just as if I'd use a melody someone else came up with. In both these cases, I have not taken anything FROM the one owning the copyright to the original works. I have just copied their ideas.

Not all too long ago, that was all legal. It became illegal when the record industry came along, basicly. Before that, mozart, bach, shakespear and all those guys copied a lot to create their own works. Today, we can't.

I'm not saying that either system is better than the other. But copyright, today, is not made up to protect the original artist. It's made for big companies, maximising their profits. Which is a good thing in several ways, and a bad thing in several other ways.

Sorry for babbling...

[kovacs]

You're confusing plagiarism with piracy. Piracy = the act of stealing other people's property. Plagiarism = the act of duplicating it and claiming it as an original idea.

Copyright is there to protect the *owner* of a work. That can be the big guy, but it can equally be the little guy.

[stefancrs]

You're confusing plagiarism with piracy. Piracy = the act of stealing other people's property. Plagiarism = the act of duplicating it and claiming it as an original idea.

Copyright is there to protect the *owner* of a work. That can be the big guy, but it can equally be the little guy.

No, I'm not confusing anything. I never said anything about claiming anything to be an original idea. Piracy is not stealing, piracy is piracy. When you steal someones property, they get their property taken from them. There is a huge difference. It's not an argument for piracy nor theft, but it is how it is.

About who it protects, that's your opinion, whilst mine differs.

[kaze]

Does anyone find the anti-piracy advertisements to be an insult to the intelligence? There is one I used to see in the UK - piracy funds terrorists was the basic statement. One could hear a collective WTF in the cinema.

And then there is the one that goes .. "you wouldn't steal a (whole list of things)..." Compares stealing cars and handbags with buying a dodgy copy of some plotless, pointless, artless Hollywood disposable film. How are people going to be convinced piracy is wrong if they are presented with a campaign of "hey stupid person, do as I say!"

Another argument that pisses me off is when people ask "Why is the majority of film and music so crap these days?" the answer is piracy. I do believe cause and effect have been switched. The industry have driven popular music into a corner where a team of people produce disposible aural culture substitute. Movies have gone the same way. An album to many is something you buy that is only useful for a short period of time. Who would pay for something that becomes refuse so quickly? The people the RIAA represent are the same people that turned music into shiny plastic the fades im the light of day.

This argument does not support piracy. I simply stating the problem has to be dealt with outside the arena the RIAA has defined. If I had the talent, I'd like to write scores for film but if it paid the same, why not shrink wrap DVD cases. At the end of the day it's just rubbish that is thrown away.

--(how's that for a druken rant)--