A post for other filmmakers/videographers who also lurk here

[tkmattson]

Have you heard about the Panasonic HVX-200? One word: Omigod. For those of you who are audio/music only folks, this would be the equivalent of someone creating a plug-in that EXACTLY emulates analog tape, oh, and it would be reasonably priced as well. This is the holy grail of digital film. Seriously, "Attack Of The Clones" could be made in a garage near you!!!

http://www.dvxuser.com/articles/HVX200/

[tkmattson]

Forgot to mention what the implications on those of you who write soundtracks, or mix for picture would be from this camera. You're going to have a HECK of a lot more projects that are done either in 24P or 24Pa (advanced pulldown). Better make sure whatever host you're using is not only capable of counting in 29.97 fps (30 drop frame), but 23.98 fps as well, otherwise you're going to be in for a lot of fun with math.

[Landphil]

That's a sweet looking camera! *drooling*

God, I love hi-tech toys!!!

[slovak]

goddamn it isreal 6,000 bucks -- nice... might have to rent first to get these few videos under my belt.

[tkmattson]

That's a sweet looking camera! *drooling*

God, I love hi-tech toys!!!

Yeah, it is bitchen'. Thing is, despite my perpetual fondness with audio & music, film & video are what I do for a living. Which means, if I want to stay in business, I'm probably going to have to get this thing in the next year or two. Not that I'm really complaining, I'll be able to write off part of it, and I'll be able to shoot at the same damn resolution, & at the same frame rate, as Lucasfilm & my neighbor Mr. "Sin City" Rodriguez, for a fraction of the cost. Talk about leveling the playing field....

[waveriderarts]

Have you heard about the Panasonic HVX-200? One word: Omigod.

"Offering 1080/24p"

man for 6000$!!!!

incredible.... !!!! That is digital cinematography for every filmaker !!!!

[tkmattson]

Have you heard about the Panasonic HVX-200? One word: Omigod.

"Offering 1080/24p"

man for 6000$!!!!

incredible.... !!!! That is digital cinematography for every filmaker !!!!

Here's the freakin' catch, tho. The 8 GB P2 cards that it records to are $2000 a pop, which yields about eight minutes of uncompressed 1080/24P HD per card. Meaning for about an hour of recording more or less non stop, you're talking about another 12K. On the plus side, rental houses will be stocking the P2 cards, and if you actually buy the cards, you more or less never have to buy any any storage, say outside of the hard drive for backup, which could easily be included in a day rate. So yeah, it's $6000 for the camera, but they stick to you with the storage. Still, when compared to anything previous, Sony Cinealta, for example, $100K, plus a direct to disk recorder, another $20K. This is about like the drop in price between the Synclavier and Emulator back in the eighties....

[Landphil]

Better make sure whatever host you're using is not only capable of counting in 29.97 fps (30 drop frame), but 23.98 fps as well, otherwise you're going to be in for a lot of fun with math.

That's a new one on me, allthough it's been ages since I did any sound for a visual project, and those were VERY low budget local things.
Current hosts that support this?

[tkmattson]

Better make sure whatever host you're using is not only capable of counting in 29.97 fps (30 drop frame), but 23.98 fps as well, otherwise you're going to be in for a lot of fun with math.

That's a new one on me, allthough it's been ages since I did any sound for a visual project, and those were VERY low budget local things.
Current hosts that support this?

Pretty sure DP & Logic do, but I'm not sure about others....This is the framerate that some newer (last few years) prosumer/professional video cameras use to get a film look, and/or for transfer to film. The amount of projects that are in 30fps (drop or non-drop) will most certainly dwindle in the next few years....

[Rune L-H]

I'll be able to shoot at the same damn resolution, & at the same frame rate, as Lucasfilm & my neighbor Mr. "Sin City" Rodriguez, for a fraction of the cost. Talk about leveling the playing field....

Yes, this sure is exciting!
But of course there's propably still quite a leap of quality to the lenses used on bigger cameras used by Lucasfilm etc...and naturally that still has a big impact on overall image quality. I believe the major HD video cameras are compatible with lens-types used on regular 35mm filmcameras...(and on another note: even the very best HD video still doesn't come close to the larger-than-life-look & quality of 35mm film).

But this still sounds great! How's the post production going to be handled? I mean, can the capture & playback for editing be done on a normal PC (through firewire or similar) without insane investments?

Cheers,
Rune

[kevvvvv]

We shoot on a Sony DX50 with a Fujinon wangle.

But since the dawn of software fx I refuse to get excited over hardware any more.

For instance, who's tried Film FX?

The results from this are awesome.

No ... let's say this properly.

You can choose frame rate, filters, film speeds, etc etc to find the exact look you're looking for.

Saving Private Ryan, The Godfather, The Guiness Ads, halos round heads, old people looking young ... it's all in there.

These days we almost never use footage straight from the camera, any more than a musician records the guitar and says "okay - that's it".

[tkmattson]

I'll be able to shoot at the same damn resolution, & at the same frame rate, as Lucasfilm & my neighbor Mr. "Sin City" Rodriguez, for a fraction of the cost. Talk about leveling the playing field....

Yes, this sure is exciting!
But of course there's propably still quite a leap of quality to the lenses used on bigger cameras used by Lucasfilm etc...and naturally that still has a big impact on overall image quality. I believe the major HD video cameras are compatible with lens-types used on regular 35mm filmcameras...(and on another note: even the very best HD video still doesn't come close to the larger-than-life-look & quality of 35mm film).

But this still sounds great! How's the post production going to be handled? I mean, can the capture & playback for editing be done on a normal PC (through firewire or similar) without insane investments?

Cheers,
Rune

You hit the shortcomings on the nose, kudos. The lens is a standard 13X 82mm Leica, about like the DVX100, and the CCD's are 1/3 inch instead of 2/3 inch, and DOF has ALWAYS been an issue with video, compared to film that is, but there are easy, and believable, workarounds - including shooting on the tight end of lens from a distance, or using a diffusion screen, if your scene would allow you to hide it.

For post, as far as I'm aware, Avid & FCP should both already be prepared for this format. An editor will not need a deck, but a card reader to get the stuff into their system, that is unless it's already been transfered to a hard drive on location, which is a likely workflow. In that case, it'll just be a run of the mill hard drive that gets presented to the editor....I just love living in the future.

[The O'Neil Twins]

We shoot on a Sony DX50 with a Fujinon wangle.

But since the dawn of software fx I refuse to get excited over hardware any more.

For instance, who's tried Film FX?

The results from this are awesome.

No ... let's say this properly.

You can choose frame rate, filters, film speeds, etc etc to find the exact look you're looking for.

Saving Private Ryan, The Godfather, The Guiness Ads, halos round heads, old people looking young ... it's all in there.

These days we almost never use footage straight from the camera, any more than a musician records the guitar and says "okay - that's it".

That's true........ but I still Panasonic

[Rune L-H]

We shoot on a Sony DX50 with a Fujinon wangle.

But since the dawn of software fx I refuse to get excited over hardware any more.

For instance, who's tried Film FX?

The results from this are awesome.

No ... let's say this properly.

You can choose frame rate, filters, film speeds, etc etc to find the exact look you're looking for.

Saving Private Ryan, The Godfather, The Guiness Ads, halos round heads, old people looking young ... it's all in there.

These days we almost never use footage straight from the camera, any more than a musician records the guitar and says "okay - that's it".

Hmm... That would equal saying that a musician could just as well record in 22,050 Hz because he can always apply an eq afterwards

What format is that Sony model? Is it DVcam?

No doubt you can do nice stuff with FilmFX, Magic Bullet, Cinelook etc, but it doesn't change that the higher quality you begin with the better.

Don't forget that if you you want to create the feel of 24 fps in FilmFX you are messing with field interpolation/merging etc. This WILL reduce the image resolution. It is far better to get 24 fps progressive source material to begin with.

Cheers,
Rune

[kevvvvv]

rune

Hmm... That would equal saying that a musician could just as well record in 22,050 Hz because he can always apply an eq afterwards

What format is that Sony model? Is it DVcam?

No doubt you can do nice stuff with FilmFX, Magic Bullet, Cinelook etc, but it doesn't change that the higher quality you begin with the better.

Don't forget that if you you want to create the feel of 24 fps in FilmFX you are messing with field interpolation/merging etc. This WILL reduce the image resolution. It is far better to get 24 fps progressive source material to begin with.

You have to remember I'm a producer and not a camera op.

Mostly all I'm interested in is the "delivered look" to the client.

Of course no sane person would deny what a great piece of glass can do for "the look".

But there are so many other variables that affect the delivered look, eg, performance, location, lighting, editing, timing, fx and a hundred other things.

Overall I find cameras are over-rated as contributors to the finished product.

I suspect I might get an ear bashing for saying this ... but what heck ... I'm only a producer.

Prolly says it all