Which sequencer has the BEST midi implementation?

[w1nt3rmut3]

Well, I thought I had found my bliss with Live, but I've finally decided that I just cannot live with its shoddy MIDI implementation. MIDI editing is very important to me! For that reason I have a very simple question: which sequencer has the best MIDI implementation of them all?

I suppose I should add "...except Logic", since I am on Windows.

Is it Cubase? I have heard Tracktion both praised and condemned in harsh words for its midi. How about even Project 5? I'm willing to consider any and every sequencer, as long as it will let me be a MIDI editing ninja!

To be clear: I really don't want to make sacrifices and use workarounds and otherwise "settle" for second-rate midi editing, so please keep that in mind before suggesting your favorite sequencer!

thanks!

[Andywanders]

I'm with you here. So far I've tried Live and Samplitude, and I got the free version of Tracktion when it was available. None of these have the kind of MIDI funcionality I'm used to in Logic 5.5. Not even close.

The thing is, both Emagic and Steinberg have been making sequencing software since the Atari days - long before VST - so that could be why their MIDI functions are so good. This is especially so for anyone using MIDI hardware (me).

I think the Steinberg progs will be your best bet, but as there are no demos, I'm not sure. Or try and get hold of a secondhand Logic.

[Lunch Money]

If you want to be a MIDI ninja, try the Tracktion2 demo before committing, to decide if you're one who hates it or loves it. I'm not even a yellow belt of MIDI (I'm an audio dude, generally), so I wouldn't want to recommend it without you trying it out first.

Actually, same goes for any sequencer. I've heard Cubase being sworn at, but other people have recommended it. MIDI implementation seems one of those very personal issues for some reason.

[soma]

Can you list what functionality you are looking for?

[Andywanders]

If you want to be a MIDI ninja, try the Tracktion2 demo before committing, to decide if you're one who hates it or loves it.

Does it recognise aftertouch yet..?

Can it generate bank change messages..?

Can it generate sysex messages..?

Does it have an event list editor..?

Does it have a dedicated drum editor..?

Can it transform MIDI data..?

Don't get me wrong, I think Tracktion is a nice program. But as you say, it's better for audio than MIDI.

[w1nt3rmut3]

I'm still kind've a newbie to all of this, so I'm not sure that I have the proper language; but the two things that bothered me the most in Live were insufficient note resolution and the inability to scale MIDI tempo to make the tempo of a clip match the tempo of the rest of the song (that is, I wanted to be able to stretch/shrink midi without bouncing it to audio). There were some other problems too that I REALLY don't have the language to communicate. If it turns out that my problems do have a solution in Live I will be embarrassed but happy, and would love to hear them!
I've found that right now my best bet has been to do things like drum programming in Reason and rewire it to Live; but it just feels a bit...awkward.

[Distorted_Mastermind]

for simple i know fl studio formerly known as fruity loops is about as simple as i've found. for an overall program fruity loops is not a good option imo. i like a program i can do anything in if i need to without bouncing tracks around. i got in on the free tracktion offer. hated it at first, then fell in love with it, but the main thing i use tracktion for is audio recording and sequencing. they are both simple programs which is important. i can get my way around good in either program. i really haven't given the midi in tracktion much of an evaluation yet since i don't mess with it. i do know in fl studio the midi comes together how i want it to. no time is wasted navigating around the software. same with tracktion for audio. both of them have demos out. i would try the demos and see for yourself. for me simple is important. one program for midi i can warn you on is acid pro. it could've gotten better with 5, but i keep hearing bad things about v5

[ahja]

Cubase is probably your best bet if you want the most advanced midi editing capibilities that are active on PC today.

[braj]

the two things that bothered me the most in Live were insufficient note resolution and the inability to scale MIDI tempo to make the tempo of a clip match the tempo of the rest of the song.

Quantized note resolution goes to 64th notes, and you can not quantize them if you like. And midi does scale with tempo changes.

[Lunch Money]

a bunch of stuff

<shrug>

A feature list isn't a guarantee of mutual compatibility between a sequencer and a user. If that were the case, whichever sequencer boasted the longest list of features would be the one that everyone used, no?



I think my advice still stands: try the demos of various programs before deciding.

Of course, if memory serves me, Steinberg have taken away that freedom by not providing demo versions...?

Greg

[adamatic]

i know your on windows but when it comes to midi you can't really beat motu digital performer on the mac, to me nothing comes close. alot of people i know dedicate an old mac to it(beige ppc or b&w g3) and run all their hardware with it along with a windows computer for vsti stuff.

[braj]

Regarding Live, I would recommend turning quantize off when working in the editor, then turn it on when you want to quantize. I actually like working with midi in Live, the things that bug me are not being to edit right in the timeline ala Tracktion and no audio of note placement. But the fold feature rocks, I like that you can click a note in the piano roll and all notes are highlighted for editing velocities, I like per clip automation, the automation in general in Live rocks, and except for Tracktion it definitely has the shortest learning curve out there. It (nor Tracktion) doesn't have all the features Finbar mentioned, but if you don't need those Live is great. I seriously recommend getting deeper with it because the midi really isn't that bad IMO.

[tetraplan]

Sonar.
Plenty of options.
With CAL-scripts you can take it to insane levels.
Too bad CAL is seen as a legacy thing (or that I'm LISP-impaired).
Of course, you can use MFX plugins.

Groet, Erik

[ericj23]

actually there is a demo of sx 1 i think - which can be found here ftp://ftp.steinberg.net/Download/Cubase_SX_1/Demo/Pc/

now that is a very old version - but much of the midi functionality is the same and it can do everything on your list

the major midi differences in sx3 are in the return of mixer panels - i.e. edit your hardware from a panel using cubase automation - and of patch lists - so you can choose presets etc from cubase - these were all in cubase 5

[mojkarma]

On the PC platform I would definitely recommend Cubase.

Sonar.
Plenty of options.
With CAL-scripts you can take it to insane levels.
Too bad CAL is seen as a legacy thing (or that I'm LISP-impaired).
Of course, you can use MFX plugins.

1. Sonar is in terms of Midi about 10 years behind Cubase (spliting notes, muting notes, multiple lanes, resizing multiple notes, step editor in the pianoroll view, note input quantize while recording? not in Sonar)
2. CAL srcipts can make good things, but you are not able to write your own (you can if you are a programer). Cubase has a logical editor (it comes to the same) and the user is able to understand how it works and how to use it.