New version of SIR out! But...

[drinelli]

Though I acknowledge the importance of money and the economic system as such, I am no capitalist, and I do not like the way some states use brute force to solving problems.

My point is that we need money, simply because swapping goods would be a real pain in the .... over distance, and communism failed because people who can not benefit from their own initiative, will not show any initiative, and no devellopment will take place, dreams would crash. =stagnation. If an invention was not protected somehow, the inventor would maybe feel it was not worth the effort, and stop what he/she was doing, unless she/he was doing it for some idealistic purpose. And if she/he was idealistic about it, but did not get any money for it, he/she might loose control over the project because of a lack of funds, or maybe no one else would continue the project. And so a project might be used for something not planned for, maybe bad things.
It is not the scientist that is mad it is the users of the inventions.


Now that was really political, sorry about that, had to get it of my chest.

I do not like the idea of patents on ideas or living things, but I do not like the idea of suppression of people either. Ideas are good as long as they work, if they don`t or they are bad out with them, if one persons thought surpresses another persons abillity or possibillity to think, then it is really bad. If thoughts are bad, they need to be guided elsewhere. And good ideas should be rewarded. within reason.

And that is my opinion, not anything else.

[atomic_(no)afro]

Now would be a good time to throw this up:


http://www.eff.org/patent

ATA

[Z3R0T0N1N]

from intangible to tangible?
paying for the right to use BASIC OPERATIONS = freedom?
only a fool would be so keen to go careening down slippery slope like this:
The idea that being unable to patent a fundamental process of logical deduction would lead to no ownership of houses and cars is one of the most bizarre examples of fallacy I have come across in a long time. American are we?

[Noox]

It is not the scientist that is mad it is the users of the inventions.

When looked from one perspective, you're right. From another, you're wrong. Don't forget a scientist is born with a natural asshole radar between his ears, like everybody else, and can choose to work here or there. Nowadays, no scientist can say "I couldn't know my boss would use my discovery like this".

Talking about software patenting, just take a look at this page.

[Pollux]

It is kind of obvious that a house is the property of a person - we don't need an explanation on a document to point that out (even so, there are legal documents indicating ownership). If a person has an idea that leads to an invention because they invested a good part of their life and money thinking about a solution for a complex problem - there is reason to understand that that person would like to benefit from such an investment (few people work for free - especially talented and knowledgeable people). A patent allows the translation of the ownership of that idea/innovation/invention/solution into a tangeable and negotiable property - like we all understand.

This is a very valid reason to defend intellectual property (allowing commercial software), but a very bad reason to defend patents. Why? If John Doe wants to sell his house a billion dollars, nobody will care: people will just buy one of the 999 remaining houses -- and if his house really is worth one billion dollar, then someone may buy it and be happy with it. But if John Doe wants to sell his patent about building a house one billion dollar, then EVERYBODY will have to pay him one billion dollar and will have NO ALTERNATIVE, unless they're willing to sleep outside. In the first case, he's not hurting anyone (except himself if nobody wants to buy his house), while in the second case, he can prevent tons of people from having a house.

And you don't patent mathematical concepts like the Fast Fourier Transform (used in convolution filters and the likes); why would you patent absolutely trivial extensions of the FFT to allow for zero-latency operation?

[greendoor]

Patents are just another mechanism for lawyers to get rich. Inventors with original idea's hardly ever profit from their invention. It's usually the second mouse that gets the cheese.

[Z3R0T0N1N]

Talking about software patenting, just take a look at this page.

just had to quote that, because linking to it once is not enough. this shit is seriously important. if you live in the EU, you need to write your EU parliment representative and point out how f**ked up the situation is. The presidency is trying to make the parliment inneffective and obsolete in this matter, and too many are just letting it happen.

arrg. why do i have to be among the poor sods who care about things. oh to be blissfully indifferent.

[drinelli]

arrg. why do i have to be among the poor sods who care about things. oh to be blissfully indifferent. Crying or Very sad

I think in a way, you do not understand what I say, Maybe it is because I can`t explain what I mean to you because I lack some english Skills, No I am not American, for crying out loud, if I were I would be able to tell you in english exactly what I mean. Rather by saying you are amongst the only people that care you sound wery american Indeed. We all care but doesent mean every body has to like the idea of open source, the internet is a wery unsecure place to be, and open source doesen`t help with this, quite the opposite, it makes it easier for virus builders to infect our computers, and that is just simply that that i don`t like. And that is just my opinnion nothing else, I might not be right about this, but that is what my logic tells me. What I am telling you is all from a human psykological point of view.

if I has not made my self clear, just forget about it no big deal Sorry if we can not agree on anything Spoonboiler.

[drinelli]

Oh and by the way, I do not like what EU have in mind either. Sucks.

[Z3R0T0N1N]

one of the oldest and most inaccurate accusations levelled at the open source world by microsoft and the association of huge corporations that it belongs to is that open source is rife with viruses. This has never been substantiated, and has in fact been widely accepted to be simply a tactic to make the increasing number of government agencies who are switching to open source solutions think twice. Government is one of the most lucrative sources of income for corporations like microsoft and oracle, and these companies among others have been fighting a dirty but loosing battle against the better open source solutions. Part of that campaign has been to spread misinformation regarding susceptability to malicious action. LIES, all lies. It makes me sad to see that people actually believe the hype.
You are misunderstanding me. I am NOT against for-profit software. What I am against is patents granted to companies for fundamental operations.
Here's the thing: open source does not mean NO PROFIT. Lots of companies make a good profit by selling their own versions of open source work. Apple's OS is based on an open source OS: BSD, from Berkley.
It is free as in 'freedom', not as in 'free beer'. It is important that you learn about this stuff if you are going to argue against it, so I really recommend you do some research. You can't be pro software patents, and against software patents at the same time.
cheers.
(and, for the record, I didn't say 'the few that care', i said 'among those who care'. Nothing was said or implied about the number of people in that group. Don't read things into what I say. It isn't sound thinking. And you don't have to be sorry that we don't agree. I don't care if you agree with me. I DO care that people get informed before they start spreading stuff around like 'open source is prone to viruses'. That is garbage. Open source is at least as secure. Often MORE secure, because attacks are generally made on large corporations. )

[drinelli]

You are misunderstanding me. I am NOT against for-profit software. What I am against is patents granted to companies for fundamental operations.

Well that is the same that I am against, apparently I can`t express my self well enough So it comes through to you.

Part of that campaign has been to spread misinformation regarding susceptability to malicious action. LIES, all lies. It makes me sad to see that people actually believe the hype.

It is actually happening when the public uses Open source, because it then gets fun to use spy ware, and gives them information about people when atacking, public registers of computer systems which process personal information.

[Noox]

drinelli, in order to clear up a few preconceived idea, you should urgently try this.

Download the ISO image, burn it and reboot using the CD. It is a free OS (as in freedom) called Linux loaded with programs, for free (as in free beer). It won't touch your hard disk, so don't fear anything. You just need 256Mb of RAM to use it.

[drinelli]

As windows comes with most new Pcs, well I am not exactly in need of Linux, but thanks for the tip anyway, but you know, it is possible to talk before one thinks, and as it seems it is actually possible to write before one thinks too, and I maybe got a bit carried away in the discussion, as it turns out I may have some open source my self, and have no problems with it, Sorry about that Spoonboiler if you read this. Maybe I got Some bit stressed, about writing so much at one time at kvr. I usually do not use this much time on the net.

[Z3R0T0N1N]

same happens to me sometimes. no apology is necessary. I get very excited when I write about this stuff, because it matters very much to me. But I should try not to seem like such a 'know-it-all'.
So, cheers.
we do agree on some stuff.

[drinelli]

Good to know I am not alone in acting before thinking, We are not perfect people living in a perfect world alltogether, but it should never be a bad deed, to try and make it a better place. Good luck in your struckle for Open Source.