KVR Audio

Funkybot · Post by **Funkybot** » Mon May 02, 2005 12:01 am

...I hardly use any reverb because of them. Seriously, I'll throw a tiny bit on a vocal, then maybe some on a guitar track, but generally my tracks have gotten really dry, and I think a big part of that is that I don't have a super high end lexi or TC sounding reverb. If I did I'd probably be drenching all my tracks in verb. What spurred this though is that I'm downloading the Arts Acoustic demo, and I got to thinking how I haven't found one native VST reverb that can do three things very well, and the only one I've demoed that did one thing exceptionally well was the Princeton Digital 2016. Anyway, just a thought...

greendoor · Post by **greendoor** » Mon May 02, 2005 1:24 am

There have been a few threads lately where some people like myself have pointed out that hardware reverbs (even ones from the '80's) still sound better than most plugins. Part of the problem is that there are a lot of patents involved. I like the Princeton sound a little - but frankly I have freeware verbs I like better. I don't consider even the Princeton 2016 to be up to excellent hardware standards. Convolution, at the moment, is our best hope of a taste of high end reverb. Which must be pissing TC and Lexi off a bit, but why don't they just sell us a decent reverb plug? Well, there is PoCo if you have the money ...

greendoor · Post by **greendoor** » Mon May 02, 2005 1:32 am

A solution that I would like to see developed is a new type of reverb plugin that is basically a programmable reverb that uses patches to define the multiple delay line parameters. This could be used together with a standalone reverb re-synthesis converter that could analyse a reverb impulse and create a patch for this reverb. This, I think, could allow us a native reverb that could be totally tweakable (to an absurd level),and yet could have a huge library of presets with a tiny file size. Best of all, I think this would allow us to virtually grab the guts of these patented algorithmns and have a good taste of various known-good hardware sounds. It would be a hybrid, but I suspect it could sound very good if implemented well.

kritikon · Post by **kritikon** » Tue May 03, 2005 4:44 pm

...I hardly use any reverb because of them

yeah...I know what you mean.

You can get TC on their proprietary boards. Why oh why won't Lexicon do the same thing? If they're worried about piracy, then some kind of DSP card would be the thing to stop it. In fact, they already have the R&D stuff sorted out - remember their Core soundcards? They implemented MPX algorithms on those, so they should very easily be able to implement a PCM91 or a 960 etc onto a similar card. I'd happily pay the premium for the opportunity to have Lexicon reverb inside my computer. It shouldn't have to be as much as a h/w box, but likewise they can expect to get a fair number of buyers at a hefty price - doesn't have to be particularly cheap.

Maybe that's why I've noticed a trend for drumtracks to be drier and drier over the past few years...more music done in s/w and no decent reverb to be had. Not a bad thing, really...I quite like dry drums (so I just throw 0dBfs filtered feedback delay onto them instead of reverb

)

If in doubt with reverb...use as much delay as physically possible without blowing your monitors

Funkybot · Post by **Funkybot** » Tue May 03, 2005 5:03 pm

I'm with you, reverb or not I like my drum tracks dry unless it's a natural room sound. There's nothing better than just compressing the hell out of a room mic for a huge ambient drum sound, and that just doesn't seem to work the same with reverb.

away from home · Post by **away from home** » Tue May 03, 2005 5:51 pm

Funkybot wrote:...I hardly use any reverb because of them. Seriously, I'll throw a tiny bit on a vocal, then maybe some on a guitar track, but generally my tracks have gotten really dry, and I think a big part of that is that I don't have a super high end lexi or TC sounding reverb. If I did I'd probably be drenching all my tracks in verb. What spurred this though is that I'm downloading the Arts Acoustic demo, and I got to thinking how I haven't found one native VST reverb that can do three things very well, and the only one I've demoed that did one thing exceptionally well was the Princeton Digital 2016. Anyway, just a thought...

Have you not tried SIR or PrestineSpace, or the best non-convolution reverb Anwidasoft Spazio?

btw, anyone hyped yet by the "user reviews" buzzz, its so phishy. Almost like its an anti-ArtsAcoustic campain.

Stupid American Pig · Post by **Stupid American Pig** » Tue May 03, 2005 6:14 pm

I agree, nothing ruins a track quicker than too much reverb...

Kraku · Post by **Kraku** » Tue May 03, 2005 7:56 pm

I rarely use any reverb also. This dry sound has become an essential part of my personal production sound. And the reasons for not using reverbs have been stated here already...

drinelli · Post by **drinelli** » Tue May 03, 2005 8:32 pm

The kind of music I make rely heavely on reverb, but a vst Reverb that gives the right shine is difficult to find, saying that I must admit I never have heard a hardware Reverb in action, exept for on commercial cds. But comparing to those I feel vsts are far from there, yet, but it could all be down to mastering.

The ArtsAcoustic Reverb maybe are what is in need, I tried it as an Insert effect, and it did not sound at all good, but using it as send, it turned out to be a beautyfull one. Do not know what makes the difference, but a big difference there was. But I am bit disapointed about Cpu use though. Yes I would Say we need good Vst reverb, I do, and I hope I have found it.

greendoor · Post by **greendoor** » Tue May 03, 2005 10:07 pm

After all the hype, I was disappointed in ArtsAcoustic. Will SIR and Glaceverb and Ambiance being essentially free, the standard available is very good (and yet still not world class). We are looking for something better than this excellent free stuff, so a new and expensive VST reverb has tough competition. I would definately say don't spend money on reverb if you don't already have SIR, Glaceverb and Ambiance as a reference of what is good for free. Then, I think you will find that the expensive VST are only a little better (if at all), and the gap between hardware indicates that there are future possibilities for VST reverb that might be worth waiting for ...

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Tue May 03, 2005 10:19 pm

I just gotta say that I found the ArtsAcoustic Reverb to be the single best VST verb I've ever tried. Really "sticks" to my tracks with surprisingly low CPUsage.

drinelli · Post by **drinelli** » Wed May 04, 2005 2:14 am

Yeah I agree, Art Acoustic Rocks, just made my best Track ever with it, just do not use it as an insert effect, that doesent make it justice.

And Greendoor though those reverbs you mention are good, they are not as good as this, and because of the latensy in Sir, I have so far had no use for it.

Best reverbs I have ever tried :

1. Arts Acoustic Reverb

2./3./4./5. Masterverb and/or Roomverb M2, And/or Glaceverb, And/or the Cubase version of Ambience

6. All Impulse Reverbs, But not one Have functioned Well on my Computer, because of instability, Cpu Use, and latency, and that is why They are only in the 6. spot

hope I have not forgot any I have tried

The Good Thing About Native Reverbs