KVR Audio

Samplecraze · Post by **Samplecraze** » Fri May 06, 2005 10:43 am

FWIW

Another good company having to cut costs and shut it's doors because of freeloaders.

We have lost too many talented and resourceful people in this industry because of the current mindset that implies that it is a God given right to have content for free, and if you can't have it for free, well, then you have to crack it or P2P it..

What is even more painful is the lack of both gratitude and recognition for the developer and his content. Gratitude both in terms of a personal 'thankyou' and in terms of monetary reward.
Recognition for the quality of the content, and the fact that this is being made available to you...

Add to the above the lack of any form of support, and we have a situation whereby we are having to downsize our businesses and focus on specific market forces.

How many more companies and individuals have to go down before the freeloaders are left with poor quality content, and in a real world situation, no product base at all?
It certainly looks like it's going that way.

Most of us sound designers come from a technical background and our resumes attest to the amount of work we have contracted and, even more importantly, the quality has always been of the highest standard possible, simply because the companies that we have designed for have very stringent quality controls in place.

I, for one, am saddened at the way HS has been treated, both commercially, and without any form of support.

Even sadder is the way this thread has exposed some of the thinking that goes into the mindset mentioned earlier.

We, as a community, have to recognise and aid people like Steve of HS. Becasue without them, you have repetition of content and poor quality to boot.

Some of you should not only be ashamed of yourselves but should leave this industry, because it is 'you' that is killing us off.

Steve, we as a company also had to rethink our strategies and now have a healthy balance of free and paying content.
I urge you to rethink your decision and maybe adapt your direction.
If we can be of any help, you only need to ask.

Zukan
Samplecraze

Jace-BeOS · Post by **Jace-BeOS** » Fri May 06, 2005 1:44 pm

Lovesign wrote:
Jace-BeOS wrote:That sucks. No idea.
Good thing I leached everything I could from there already.
That's the very reason and piss poor attitude why Steve has withdrawn the service

Yes, and I wrote that "leached" comment before I read that he had taken it down on purpose. I thought it was just "down" for technical reasons.

I have posted a thank you note at Steve's own forum. I too feel somewhat embarrassed not having thanked him sooner. I had offered some samples, a little while back, as my way of trying to give something back, but if he's trying to make a living off of his music/synth work, that isn't enough of a payback for sure.

Jace-BeOS · Post by **Jace-BeOS** » Fri May 06, 2005 1:58 pm

Furthermore, I think Steve made the right choice.

Thanks for coming here to talk to us, Steve. Not all of the former leechers are ingrates.

The comments about the mentality in the industry are VERY accurate. It's also accurate for a lot of industries. Tons of skilled workers are being dropped because "quality" has been kicked out of the bus, at high speed, I might add. Most people want free things these days and they don't care about quality. It shows in all areas from hobby projects to professional publications and products. Sad.

Sorry for being a leech, Steve.

Failed Muso · Post by **Failed Muso** » Fri May 06, 2005 4:09 pm

Jonny X wrote:I think public opinion rests with me.

You do ??? Have you actually read any of the other posts other than your own ??

P.S. Jace-Beos.. wasn't personal mate, I apologise

Jace-BeOS · Post by **Jace-BeOS** » Fri May 06, 2005 4:54 pm

Lovesign: No problem mate

I just put my money where my mouth is and bought the FS1R collection over at Hollow Sun. I have been lusting for an FS1R on eBay for years and I will never break down and pay what they go for. Besides, with my luck on USB MIDI interfaces, I doubt that I'd be able to program it via sysex. Avoid Yamaha USB MIDI interfaces!

I'm terribly pleased with the amount of material Steve's fed my S6000 with for free and I decided it was worth the small price to me to help him make a living in return

waiting man · Post by **waiting man** » Fri May 06, 2005 6:13 pm

I sincerely love Steve, the site is wow and he's very patient, he managed to accept my hysterical need to contribute to the donations without having a good device to sample.

but it's months that I'm waiting for his mellotron cd...
and in the end I've redirected my bucks somewhere else.
I feel a shit now, knowing his emotions and the will to shut the library, but I was ready to pay.

Failed Muso · Post by **Failed Muso** » Fri May 06, 2005 6:45 pm

Jace-BeOS wrote:Lovesign: No problem mate

I just put my money where my mouth is and bought the FS1R collection over at Hollow Sun. I have been lusting for an FS1R on eBay for years and I will never break down and pay what they go for. Besides, with my luck on USB MIDI interfaces, I doubt that I'd be able to program it via sysex. Avoid Yamaha USB MIDI interfaces!

I'm terribly pleased with the amount of material Steve's fed my S6000 with for free and I decided it was worth the small price to me to help him make a living in return

I promise you Jace, you will not be disappointed !!

The FS1r collection is my personal favourite and one that is close to my heart. When I started up the Akai Pro Users Forum, I was approached by Martijn Buiter from Holland with a bucket load of FS1r samples. He wanted to donate them to the public domain, but they were raw and untreated and needed work. Having known Steve for some while, I approached him for ideas, and the original intention was to start a Forum project up, getting Forum users to work on the samples and then make the final product available to members. Sadly, this never took off, so I suggested Martijn speak with Steve, and Steve then put a lot of hard work in, moulding the samples into some truly beautiful works of art.

These are by far and away the most evocative samples I have ever heard and I regularly load them up and just "jam", creating some sonic landscapes with the pads. But explore beyond the pads, and you will find some thumping basses, divine bells and other glorious sounds.

It has more than satisfied my similar FS1r lust

BTW, if you're an S6000, I do hope you have signed up at the Akai Pro Users Forum !

If not, click my sig and get your ass over there !

P.S. What Yamaha USB interface are you using ? I have a UX256 and it has been one of the soundest investments in my studio....solid, reliable and no fuss at all.

hollowsun · Post by **hollowsun** » Fri May 06, 2005 10:25 pm

Jace-BeOS wrote:Furthermore, I think Steve made the right choice.

Thanks for coming here to talk to us, Steve. Not all of the former leechers are ingrates.

I know that and I have to say that I have 'met' some very appreciative and splendidly generous and altruistic people through HS. Sadly though, they are in the minority! You would not believe some of the stuff that's passed through my email in-box!!!!

Jace-BeOS wrote:The comments about the mentality in the industry are VERY accurate. It's also accurate for a lot of industries. Tons of skilled workers are being dropped because "quality" has been kicked out of the bus, at high speed, I might add. Most people want free things these days and they don't care about quality. It shows in all areas from hobby projects to professional publications and products. Sad.

Yep... sadly, as I see it, we're trading convenience off against quality these days. It doesn't matter that it's shite - as long as it's convenient/easy... and preferably free... s'all that matters it seems

Quite how product developers and providers are expected to work/live in this brave new world is a mystery to me tho!

Jace-BeOS wrote:Sorry for being a leech, Steve.

Hey - no problem Jace. I am glad you like the stuff you've got!

And thanks for your order - I'll see it's dispatched in a timely fashion!

Steve

hollowsun · Post by **hollowsun** » Fri May 06, 2005 10:42 pm

Jonny X wrote:I think public opinion rests with me.

Don't quite see that myself. Those that want something for nothing are with you for sure but those who see the broader picture are not. There have been some flippant "I'm glad I got it before it closed" posts but the more 'considered' posts are largely understanding of the situation.

But you (and your supporters) have to realise - the 'free lunch' paradigm is unsustainable. Please tell me why I (or other professional developers) should get out of bed to provide freebies for you, be it soundware or plugs or whatever? There is simply no incentive.

Sure... there will always be free downloads (and more power to their elbow) but what are you Jonny... some kind of scavenging seagull that scours the beach in search of any old tatty crusts that might be thrown your way?

The bottom line is that stuff costs - to provide my free service of vintage noises, I have to hire the synths in (and/or pay for their transport, insurance, etc. to get them to me... even if they're loans). Then I have to spend some days making up the sounds and sampling them. Then I have to pay to ship the item back to the owner/hire company. Then I have to do all the sample editing, looping, programming, optimisation, etc.. Then I have to create the web pages to deliver them (notwithstanding the cost of paying for the server/bandwidth). Then I have to take time to publicise the new addition(s). Even in the case of a 'donation', I usually only get the raw WAVs and I have to do all the looping, programming, etc., myself. Why should I do all that? Just to (maybe?) bring a smile to your indifferent face before you swoop off to some other part of the beach coz there are some mouldy breadcrumbs down there? I don't think so!

Jonny X wrote:Thats why very few paid for the samples...

Wrong .... quite a lot of people have bought the CDs and appear to be very happy with their purchase (an email I received just this morning: "The M/01 cd is s-u-p-e-r-b!") but the ratio of freebie downloads to sales is disproportionate and not enough for me to afford to keep the free service going. I wish the situation was different but the reality of economics is the order of the day here and I have to make a living - providing you with sounds for nothing (and paying for the extra bandwidth to accommodate that) just ain't gonna put food on my family's table!

Jonny X wrote:If you sell the vintage CDs on eBay I may buy one...

Eh? Maybe I am being dim but .....

You say my CDs are too expensive and you won't buy but if I put them on eBay you will?!!! That's a very weird logic!

Or are you suggesting I bin 'em out for a fiver? Yeah - right! Coupla quid for P&P, 25% of sale price to our government in taxes, %% to eBay commission, etc.. After material costs, my return on that would probably be less than the legal minimum wage and I'd earn more stacking shelves at the local supermarket or delivering pizzas! Jeeeeezuzzz - there's years of work in this collection and you expect me to give you it all for nothing!!! I have had the luxury of being able to do that in the past (and was more than happy to do so especially if, in the meantime, it maybe helped Akai) but those days are over! Just in case you are hard of understanding - I DON'T HAVE ANY MONEY TO SUPPORT YOU AND YOUR LIKE WITH FREEBIES ANY MORE!!!

And it's only a matter of time before other developers and providers find themselves in the same situation because of this selfish 'gimme, gimme, gimme' attitude you appear to promote/endorse. And it will only be a matter of time before there will be no products for you to sponge off because it just won't be worth any developer/provider's time and effort and money to make them.

Hmmmmmmm

Steve

hollowsun · Post by **hollowsun** » Sat May 07, 2005 12:28 am

Bela D Media wrote:Who dares to question the loop king?

Hi ya Steve O.

Ha!

Hi Francis - didn't know you lurked here. Small world

I am glad that you appreciate my work!

Ciao

Steve

spacefox · Post by **spacefox** » Sat May 07, 2005 12:47 am

@Steve :

Never had use for the Hollow Sun samples (not really a vintagesynth lover) but much respect for for making those available. I wish thiong went better for your business.

hollowsun · Post by **hollowsun** » Sat May 07, 2005 1:07 am

Samplecraze wrote:Another good company having to cut costs and shut it's doors because of freeloaders.

We have lost too many talented and resourceful people in this industry because of the current mindset that implies that it is a God given right to have content for free, and if you can't have it for free, well, then you have to crack it or P2P it..............

<snip>

That's about it Zukan... a fair appraisal of the situation from our side of the fence I think.

Spe3D · Post by **Spe3D** » Sat May 07, 2005 11:08 am

Jonny X wrote:I think public opinion rests with me. Thats why very few paid for the samples...
They were good tho...
If you sell the vintage CDs on eBay I may buy one...

I dont agree with you

deleted · Post by **deleted** » Sat May 07, 2005 11:18 am

DELETED

Rangtangtang · Post by **Rangtangtang** » Sat May 07, 2005 11:25 am

Oh, its a shame, but steve(hollowsun)is right, it costs cash and time to provide such services. I realy like vintage gear. I noticed there weren't any DS404 vintage patches, which I would guess the majority would use. The better samplers do cost. I do think Ebay could be considered as a extra way to get product out. My final thought is, maybe, a very mimimum fee, could be asked to download as much as you like, after certain amount free mb downloaded. Like its free for the first hour and then you pay. Basicaly, so you can evaluate.

Why is the Hollow Sun download page down?