KVR Audio

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Mon May 09, 2005 1:27 pm

Guru is not a slicer at first. It can slice but that's not the purpose of it, slicing is merely used to add sounds to whatever you're programming.
It's pretty much what I'd call a hybrid between a drum sequencer/pattern designer, drum machine and a slicer. And while you may ask "Oh, so it does nothing perfect?" - well, it does everything as much as you'd need it. Its realtime capabilities seem to be unrivaled, that's for sure.

Rednroll · Post by **Rednroll** » Mon May 09, 2005 2:38 pm

Regarding using a Logic PC version, I'ld have to advise against that. Not that I don't think that Logic is a great midi sequencer and all, but you'll eventully find yourself in the same boat I am in currently. As I mentioned before I'm using Opcode's Studio Vision for my midi sequencing needs. In my opinion it's still the best midi sequencer out there, just for the fact that it does most everything I need it to do, with a simple GUI. Now Studio Vision stopped development in the year 2000, so what are my problems today, that you will eventually find yourself in tomorrow with Logic? Well Vision does not run on a Win2k or WinXP machine, thus it no longer runs on the latest OS's, that all my other music creation software runs on, and in most of the apps I'm hard pressed anymore to find any audio software that is supported under Win98, that I have to run Vision on. Vision no longer has the latest bells and whistle type technology features. It doesn't have Rewire, and it doesn't support VSTi's or DXi's. Although the Mac version does have this, because it was a few generations ahead of the PC version. So just some of my own personal experience, of using an app that is no longer being developed, that you will run into with the Logic PC version.

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Mon May 09, 2005 2:42 pm

The difference with Logic being that you actually could update, should you ever feel like... of course, you'll have to get a Mac for that.

Kalamata Kid · Post by **Kalamata Kid** » Mon May 09, 2005 2:46 pm

Hello Everyone,

I am so glad of the response. The comments have been very helpful.
Now I am again leaning towards Cubase. I love Logic but is in the past.
Anyway no MFX in Logic nor EnergyXT. MFX is very important to me.

I have been playing computer for too long. I want to play music! So the help here will help me towards my goal.

I understand that new features added to the Logical Editor in Cubase SX 3? Is this so? Any new presets in SX3? Is there a source or sources for Logical Editor presets similar to where CAL files are offered?

I still do not understand why there are not more presets in the Logical Editor. Ok, this is the last time I will mention this. So now I will have to learn to use the Logical Editor which as pointed out to me is easier to learn than CAL language. But it seems to me that CAL is more powerful. I like to experiment with midi so this is an important issue with me.

Sonar VS. Cubase:
How would one lengthen the notes by percentages rather than the fixed amount that is now allowed in Cubase and I suppose also in Sonar. In other words how to increase the note lengths lets say by 29% on the selected notes?

I know I said this before but in Cadenza this was simple to do. It may be said that I am leaving in the past. well maybe!

kritikon · Post by **kritikon** » Mon May 09, 2005 9:47 pm

I understand that new features added to the Logical Editor in Cubase SX 3? Is this so? Any new presets in SX3? Is there a source or sources for Logical Editor presets similar to where CAL files are offered?

Sorry...I'm still on SX2 - nothing in SX3 has made me want to upgrade enough yet. But there are a decent set of presets even in SX2. I guesss the best way to learn it would be to pick a preset, then go into the Logical Editor and see what boxes are used for what, and then play with them a little to get the hang of it. Pick a preset like Shorten Notes or something that's obvious maybe.

How would one lengthen the notes by percentages rather than the fixed amount that is now allowed in Cubase and I suppose also in Sonar. In other words how to increase the note lengths lets say by 29% on the selected notes?

In Cubase you'd use "Multiply" to increase by percentages. There are a set of drop down commands such as Fix, Plus, Minus, Divide etc....so in the box that you're going to use to change the parameter you pick Multiply, then type in a number: Say you want to double the lengths of selected notes - you highlight the notes you want to increase in the midi part, then pick multiply in the box, then type in 2 then apply - voila. Or you could select divide and type in 0.5.
Or if you want to simply add a certain length, you just pick "add" and type in 16 or whatever - then it simply adds 16 ticks to the length of your selected notes. It's mostly done by simple maths.
i.e
Multiply to increase by percentage
Divide to decrease by percentage
Plus to simply add a fixed length (or whatever)
Minus to take off a fixed length (or whatever)
Fix - sets everything to one number...e.g. you want to make a midi pattern all one pitch to easily convert it for use in a drum machine etc - use fix to set every note to one particular value. You'd use this also for the gating I mentioned...select certain notes, then convert them to controller7 messages (midi volume) and use fix to set the midivolume to 127 for the gate-off and fix at midivolume=0 for gate-on.

Each box explains itself once you get used to it. If you want to change a note into a controller message you just select the note parameter and pull down the dropdown menus again and select controller and the controller number etc. You can change anything into anything. There are also limits you can set - there are boxes for you to set upper and lower limits.

Check through the few presets there are, and I'm sure it'll make sense soon enough.

opiadream · Post by **opiadream** » Tue May 10, 2005 1:00 am

Sascha Franck wrote:Guru is not a slicer at first. It can slice but that's not the purpose of it, slicing is merely used to add sounds to whatever you're programming.

still
IMHO it knocks phatmatik out of the water in that department

Kalamata Kid · Post by **Kalamata Kid** » Tue May 10, 2005 1:31 am

Hello Kritikon,

Ok! it worked.

Logical editor:
(, Type is, equal, note, )
Length, multiply by, 1.29.
It took a few attempts but without you encouragement and suggestions it would not have worked.

Too bad the Logical editor is written using some cryptic words. All they had to do is look at what Cadenza did ten years ago. I know I am repeating myself, sory. So I have made some progress but I will always be handicapped because I will always have to interpret the lingo.

Thanks again. I suspect you will hearing from me again asking for more instructions.

Kalamata Kid · Post by **Kalamata Kid** » Tue May 10, 2005 1:33 am

Hello All,

1. What would be great is a VSTi wrapper to wrap MFX, the cakewalk format midi effects. Or maybe an EnergyXT wrapper module that will wrap the MFX? The idea here is to be able to use the MFX inside EnergyXT and other modular programs. An MFX I assume has a midi in and a midi out. So is it even possible to make such a wrapper?

One would say yes we have VST midi effects. Unfortunately there are not as many nor as full featured as the MFX.

2. As someone mentioned earlier an easy to use full function Midi Editor as a CAL for Sonar or as an alternative to the Cubase SX Logical Editor. Fashion it from Cadenza, Passport Master Tracks Pro or Opcode StudioVision. The objective is to make this Midi Editor very simple to use and include every conceivable midi edit possible. Use English and no cryptic words. Make it self explanatory!

3. I just hope some one with influence and the know-how is reading this and acts on this wish!

flex42 · Post by **flex42** » Tue May 10, 2005 1:37 am

you can use MFX plugs in Cubase SX (if that's what your asking for)...

Kalamata Kid · Post by **Kalamata Kid** » Tue May 10, 2005 2:10 am

I use MFX in Cubase but it would be nice to be able to use MFX inside energyXT as a module.

donato · Post by **donato** » Tue May 10, 2005 2:32 am

Digital Performer probably has the best MIDI out of all the sequencers.

Kalamata Kid · Post by **Kalamata Kid** » Tue May 10, 2005 3:30 am

Hello Kritikon,

Please tell me how to select every second event in SX2.
There is a method that works only in SX3. Apparently SX3
has some new parameters in the Logical Editor.

from the Cubase forum in response to my question:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cubase/message/58619

Lawrence says it's new in SX3 (and isn't he usually right!)
Here it is step by step:
In SX3 Logical Edit - top left hand corner choose "select" from drop-down
menu.
In the upper of the 2 light coloured panels, if there isn't already a line,
click the "Add line" button.
Under "Filter Target" select "Last Event"
Under "Condition" select "Every other Event"
Under "Parameter 1" select "Eventcounter"
Under "Parameter 2" double click and type "2" (and hit return), which then
displays as "2/D-2" (or type 3 for every third note, 4 for every fourth note
etc.)

If you have events other than notes in the part (e.g. controllers, or score
events), you need to tell it to look at notes only, so:

Click "Add line" again, and a second line should come up with the correct
parameters already on it, which are "Type is", "Equal" & "Note"

In the lower of the 2 light coloured panels, if there are any lines present,
select them and click on "Delete Line" - leave the panel blank.

Then hit the "Do It" button just below that, and prepare to be amazed!

All the best
Colin Block
The Dream Factory
Dublin, Ireland

SparkySpark · Post by **SparkySpark** » Tue May 10, 2005 7:07 am

kritikon wrote:
I understand that new features added to the Logical Editor in Cubase SX 3? Is this so? Any new presets in SX3? Is there a source or sources for Logical Editor presets similar to where CAL files are offered?
Sorry...I'm still on SX2 - nothing in SX3 has made me want to upgrade enough yet. But there are a decent set of presets even in SX2. I guesss the best way to learn it would be to pick a preset, then go into the Logical Editor and see what boxes are used for what, and then play with them a little to get the hang of it. Pick a preset like Shorten Notes or something that's obvious maybe.

How would one lengthen the notes by percentages rather than the fixed amount that is now allowed in Cubase and I suppose also in Sonar. In other words how to increase the note lengths lets say by 29% on the selected notes?
In Cubase you'd use "Multiply" to increase by percentages. There are a set of drop down commands such as Fix, Plus, Minus, Divide etc....so in the box that you're going to use to change the parameter you pick Multiply, then type in a number: Say you want to double the lengths of selected notes - you highlight the notes you want to increase in the midi part, then pick multiply in the box, then type in 2 then apply - voila. Or you could select divide and type in 0.5.
Or if you want to simply add a certain length, you just pick "add" and type in 16 or whatever - then it simply adds 16 ticks to the length of your selected notes. It's mostly done by simple maths.
i.e
Multiply to increase by percentage
Divide to decrease by percentage
Plus to simply add a fixed length (or whatever)
Minus to take off a fixed length (or whatever)
Fix - sets everything to one number...e.g. you want to make a midi pattern all one pitch to easily convert it for use in a drum machine etc - use fix to set every note to one particular value. You'd use this also for the gating I mentioned...select certain notes, then convert them to controller7 messages (midi volume) and use fix to set the midivolume to 127 for the gate-off and fix at midivolume=0 for gate-on.

Each box explains itself once you get used to it. If you want to change a note into a controller message you just select the note parameter and pull down the dropdown menus again and select controller and the controller number etc. You can change anything into anything. There are also limits you can set - there are boxes for you to set upper and lower limits.

Check through the few presets there are, and I'm sure it'll make sense soon enough.

This is the reason why I proposed Steinberg Pro 24. Basically it has a very clean Logial Edit, but then there isn't very much else. Nothing that clutters the windows (as in Cubase). Of course, finding an Atari ST and working without audio files might be a bit troublesome (but you could slave another computer to the Atari via MIDI and don't forget that you get a built-in MIDI interface!).

Another downside is that these beautys don't support the VST standard, which is why you're in this forum anyway...

...but the truth is, I have never felt so much in control of MIDI since the time I used the Atari 1024 with Pro 24.

/Sp-Sp

Kalamata Kid · Post by **Kalamata Kid** » Tue May 10, 2005 3:10 pm

For the midi-minded person, midi implementation, MFX and the ease of midi data manipulation and edit are all important. For most Windows XP is the only choice available. My two cents.

popsych · Post by **popsych** » Tue May 10, 2005 5:13 pm

I find MFX to be more of a gimmick than anything else. Nothing important i can't make a preset in the Logic equivalent of the Logical Editor. Not bashing SX just an IMHO here but i can say that it usually applies to most cases. Give me an example of an MFX that is important

Which sequencer has the BEST midi implementation?