I have just started recording vocals at my home studio with a new singer. II am using Cubase SX I have never really done much music vocal production and I was wondering if any of you guys can give me some tips to gettting a good sounding vocal.
i.e
Whats VST effects should I be using?
What should I be doing the vocal? Eq? Compression? etc..
Any help would be really great.
Many thanks
Vocal Effect help
-
- KVRian
- 781 posts since 26 Feb, 2004 from UK
-
- KVRer
- 11 posts since 6 Jun, 2002 from Toronto
What mic are you using and what is the space like where the recording is being made???
> Whats VST effects should I be using?
uhh.. none - until you mix. Focus on getting the best sound possible at the source into Cubase first.
To help with this you may want to provide your singer with a cue-mix washed in a short-ish reverb. But only in the headphones. This will help them maintain their pitch.
> What should I be doing the vocal? Eq? Compression? etc..
Depends on how successful you are at getting the best sound possible into Cubase first (see above). Everything else pretty much hinges on this...
It also depends on the style of the song and what you are trying to achieve with it. EQ on a vocal track, at least in my book, should only be used to tame harsh areas of the sound (i.e., a slight cut here and there, nothing more). Compression is much more subjective and you may go from none to extreme compression depending on what you are doing.
If you are just starting out I would take a look at PSP-Audioware's MixPack bundle as it works well for vocals. You may also want a de-esser plugin, and the Fish Fillets bundle includes a nice one.
> Whats VST effects should I be using?
uhh.. none - until you mix. Focus on getting the best sound possible at the source into Cubase first.
To help with this you may want to provide your singer with a cue-mix washed in a short-ish reverb. But only in the headphones. This will help them maintain their pitch.
> What should I be doing the vocal? Eq? Compression? etc..
Depends on how successful you are at getting the best sound possible into Cubase first (see above). Everything else pretty much hinges on this...
It also depends on the style of the song and what you are trying to achieve with it. EQ on a vocal track, at least in my book, should only be used to tame harsh areas of the sound (i.e., a slight cut here and there, nothing more). Compression is much more subjective and you may go from none to extreme compression depending on what you are doing.
If you are just starting out I would take a look at PSP-Audioware's MixPack bundle as it works well for vocals. You may also want a de-esser plugin, and the Fish Fillets bundle includes a nice one.
Meridian Productions
Music, Video, Recording, Post-Production
Music, Video, Recording, Post-Production
-
- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 781 posts since 26 Feb, 2004 from UK
Hey mate
Thats some great advise thank you.
At the moment we are using a Shure SM-58 mic which does sound pretty good. I have also just brought a Soundcraft compact 4 mixing console. She is recording in a room so no soundproofing as such.
Thats some great advise thank you.
At the moment we are using a Shure SM-58 mic which does sound pretty good. I have also just brought a Soundcraft compact 4 mixing console. She is recording in a room so no soundproofing as such.
-
- KVRer
- 11 posts since 6 Jun, 2002 from Toronto
Thx.
The SM-58 is a good mic, but for vocal work I would go with a large diaphragm condensor. Especially since your singer is female, you will notice a big improvement in the "air" around the top-end of the voice. If you go this route, I wouldn't get bogged down in esoteric tube mics or such. Just get a good condensor and do some subtle enhancement (e.g., PSP MixSaturator) when you mix. It's not quite same as a tube mic, but, hey, no one will ever know the difference and you'll save a ton of money too!!
The SM-58 is a good mic, but for vocal work I would go with a large diaphragm condensor. Especially since your singer is female, you will notice a big improvement in the "air" around the top-end of the voice. If you go this route, I wouldn't get bogged down in esoteric tube mics or such. Just get a good condensor and do some subtle enhancement (e.g., PSP MixSaturator) when you mix. It's not quite same as a tube mic, but, hey, no one will ever know the difference and you'll save a ton of money too!!
Meridian Productions
Music, Video, Recording, Post-Production
Music, Video, Recording, Post-Production
-
- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 781 posts since 26 Feb, 2004 from UK
Nice one
Thanks for the advise was actually looking at this one
http://www.maudio.co.uk/products/en_gb/Nova-main.html
Would that do???
Thanks for the advise was actually looking at this one
http://www.maudio.co.uk/products/en_gb/Nova-main.html
Would that do???
-
- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 781 posts since 26 Feb, 2004 from UK
Cool might be worth the investment then.I will notice the difference with that to the sm58 then?
-
- KVRian
- 769 posts since 2 Apr, 2005
The standard advice to beginners is to "get a large diaphragm condensor - especially for females". What they really mean is that they have a Neumann or Soundeluxe that they like through their Avalon/Buzz/Neve. Invariably, the beginner buys a cheap LDC - like a Rode NTK or something - and then wonders why the female singers vocals are so harsh and ssssy. It all depends on the singer. Most singers I know sound wonderful with a Shure SM58, SM57 or SM7. Maybe the Beta versions - the hotter output can compensate for a lesser preamp, although experienced engineers prefer the classics. No amount of plugins can compensate for a poor mic choice or poor mic technique. As for mix effects - that's a huge subject. Who do you want to sound like? Great artists usually require very little effects on their vocals. Other people like to hide behind a wash of effects. Artistic choice.
-
- KVRian
- 769 posts since 2 Apr, 2005
Absolutely, you will notice the difference. Whether you like what you hear, or even whether you can rescue the track is another thing. It might work, on a soft vocal in the right room. Or, you might end up using you SM58 anyway. I'm not being obtuse - this dilemna goes on in recording studios all the time. The SM58 and SM57 were/are used for lead vocals on countless successfull albums - price and availability has nothing to do with successful results. Consider this: SM58's were used in the days of tape and tube. With modern digital recordings, we are looking for ways to warm up our harsh sounding tracks. Instead of mushing everything with plugins, the classic dynamic mic's probably should be used more than they have been in the past.Pawel wrote:I will notice the difference with that to the sm58 then?
-
- KVRist
- 89 posts since 27 Oct, 2004
first, most important, is to get the best raw recording you can. obviously a good mic and preamp helps a lot. depending on the singer, you will likely want some compression while recording just to catch any big peaks, so you can get a decent level & dynamic range. a good headphone mix helps too - the character of a singer's performance often changes depending on the relative levels of voice/backing in the headphones. and if yr singer is not so experienced, some simple mic technique hints, backing off the mic a little at the louder parts, not firing 'p's straight into the mic etc.
eq'ing is all about yr ears. best to do it with the vocal in the track, it's all about how the vocal works with the other sounds. there are a few posts on kvr about the effect of cutting/boosting different eq ranges. a boost at 3-5K can give a vocal more presence in the mix, a low mid cut can sometimes give more clarity, sibilance is up around 7-9K - but it's all about listening, working with that particular voice and track. i sometimes end up with very whack looking eq curves that are not at all by the book, but get the sound i'm after. cheap mics often also mean a lot of eq work, you learn by experience the characteristics of a particular mic...once you do, it can make sense to apply some compensatory eq at the recording stage.
compression is another question of taste, style of the singer and style of the track...apparently lou reed these days refuses to use it, but if you're making pop-trance you'll probly find yourself squashing the hell out of everything. more compression brings a vocal more up front, at the price of the dynamic range and expression in the voice. for silky smooth vocals that sound like a synth line, compress lots, for raw-sounding expression, don't. again it's about how the vocal sits in the track - more compression gives you more overall level and a good smooth sound, but sometimes less compression can leave a useful bit of space in the mix for other sounds but still let the vocal cut through when it needs to. maybe i'm not helping that much here...my first stop is soft 2:1 or 3:1 compression that catches the top 1/3 of the signal, but really there are no rules except listen.
the other key thing is reverb/delay. the right reverb makes all the difference, the wrong one can make a vocal muddy or make it sit on top of the mix. sometimes a subtle tempo-synced delay plus a subtle reverb is better than a big reverb. the engineer i learnt from used to say that if you can hear the reverb, there's too much. but it's a personal thing.
as for which vsts to use, if you want freebies then kjaerhus classic reverb and compressor are good and easy to use...otherwise everybody has their favourites, just search the forums to find a hundred conflicting opinions...
eq'ing is all about yr ears. best to do it with the vocal in the track, it's all about how the vocal works with the other sounds. there are a few posts on kvr about the effect of cutting/boosting different eq ranges. a boost at 3-5K can give a vocal more presence in the mix, a low mid cut can sometimes give more clarity, sibilance is up around 7-9K - but it's all about listening, working with that particular voice and track. i sometimes end up with very whack looking eq curves that are not at all by the book, but get the sound i'm after. cheap mics often also mean a lot of eq work, you learn by experience the characteristics of a particular mic...once you do, it can make sense to apply some compensatory eq at the recording stage.
compression is another question of taste, style of the singer and style of the track...apparently lou reed these days refuses to use it, but if you're making pop-trance you'll probly find yourself squashing the hell out of everything. more compression brings a vocal more up front, at the price of the dynamic range and expression in the voice. for silky smooth vocals that sound like a synth line, compress lots, for raw-sounding expression, don't. again it's about how the vocal sits in the track - more compression gives you more overall level and a good smooth sound, but sometimes less compression can leave a useful bit of space in the mix for other sounds but still let the vocal cut through when it needs to. maybe i'm not helping that much here...my first stop is soft 2:1 or 3:1 compression that catches the top 1/3 of the signal, but really there are no rules except listen.
the other key thing is reverb/delay. the right reverb makes all the difference, the wrong one can make a vocal muddy or make it sit on top of the mix. sometimes a subtle tempo-synced delay plus a subtle reverb is better than a big reverb. the engineer i learnt from used to say that if you can hear the reverb, there's too much. but it's a personal thing.
as for which vsts to use, if you want freebies then kjaerhus classic reverb and compressor are good and easy to use...otherwise everybody has their favourites, just search the forums to find a hundred conflicting opinions...
-
- KVRist
- 89 posts since 27 Oct, 2004
oops...took so long writing that you already got the nearly the same advice. doh.
nothing wrong with an SM58, IMHO, especially if that's what you've got
nothing wrong with an SM58, IMHO, especially if that's what you've got
-
- KVRian
- 503 posts since 28 Mar, 2005 from Annapolis, MD
I have a Shure Beta 58A, and it sounds OK once I get some nice VST effects into it on the computer. It doesn't sound that great live. Sounds OK. Maybe I'm expecting too much.
Maybe I'm missing a preamp (when going without the computer). Is that what a preamp is useful for? If so, what recommendations under $200.
BTW--I have two amps--a Fender Super Reverb (very clean and no distortion) and a Crate acoustic amp DG30. Vocals sound doable through both, but are missing something. Is there a better amp I should be using just for vocals?
Your help would be greatly appreciated.
Maybe I'm missing a preamp (when going without the computer). Is that what a preamp is useful for? If so, what recommendations under $200.
BTW--I have two amps--a Fender Super Reverb (very clean and no distortion) and a Crate acoustic amp DG30. Vocals sound doable through both, but are missing something. Is there a better amp I should be using just for vocals?
Your help would be greatly appreciated.
-
- KVRist
- 264 posts since 28 Jan, 2003
On the subject of different types of mic - has anyone tried Antares Microphone Modeller? It sounds pretty cool in theory... but it's probably got that weird copy protection which f**ked with my computer when I tried the Autotune demo so I've not bothered downloading it.