Markleford vs Hotbop: Long-Distance Stomp [jazz]

[Programentalist]

Very nice piece I have to say! Not sure whether I agree with Sascha or Andrew on the guitar vs piano style though... but then again, let's not analyze to death!

John Zorn it ain't, but that's been covered already

Given your little bash at Jaath and "Jazzy", I'd love to hear your comments on my track "Shades of Funk", which I daringly labeled Jazz. Certainly not this kind of jazz but in my book there are a few other forms actually

No wild solos I'm afraid, I've only been playing this plastic midikeyboard for a few months after all

[seamoss]

nice friggin tune.



would have loved to hear some drums going off as well.

[experimental.crow]

enjoyed this alot ...

[Markleford]

Thank you very much for listening and very encouraging words. I'm always impressed by the breadth of what people are willing to listen to here in the Cafe!

A bunch of amalgamated responses...

Which might get the purists' knickers in a bunch, but is perfectly fine in my book.

Indeed: "purists" can also be called "statists", wishing to freeze jazz in one era and not let it move beyond. So yeah, a bit of rock/punk/electric in there was good for us: he was eager to lean a bit more modern, and I was missing my jazz roots, so we met in the middle.

Personally when I think of jazz, I think of "ok, get out the Real Book."

There was a bit of a nod to that in there: we at least wanted a "head" to return to every once in a while. Ended up just splitting up solos with it. Oh, and end "endcap" was imperative, too.

We did contemplate doing a standard, but then Michael liked the bass groove that I demo'd for him and started laying down tracks with the inspiration...

this has an off-kilter, unbalanced feel that i'm really digging.

A little bit of quirky insanity is always welcome in my book.

The only thing that bothers me is the wide gap in the playing style between the guitar and the piano. It doesn't sound like two band members..... and I assume this is true judging by the title.

Point of contention for many: homogenous sound, or variety in voices? I suppose if we actually did play together in person often, then our styles would converge somewhere in the middle.

But I like the different voices, particularly when I'm doing spazzy piano over the head and then everything just drops away into his 2nd smooooth guitar solo: that sort of contrast excites me!

It's just that the drum sounds suck.

Hyup: that's just my little automated beat generator spewing out the rhythm as a temp-track. I decided to keep it and just mix it low so as just to be a presence, rather than a draw for attention. The plodding bass provides the pulse for the most part, anyway.

Hopefully jdg will be able to spare some time to complete the beat: he'd generated at least 4 distinct stylistic feels for it over the past year (!), but never had a stable computer system long enough or the time to make it final.

[...] the original meaning of jazz has never been to follow whichever conventions there might be - it's only jazz clone factories that have led us to those assumptions.

Agreed!

my only comment would be the piano round the other way ie the improv comes in after the safer stuff.

So, you mean to just always build? But I love that drop so much!

John Zorn it ain't, but that's been covered already

It surely ain't in sound, but I did like the comparison in adventurous spirit. I love the "Naked City" album: it's on my top 10 fave CDs list. Perhaps I'll do a project like (but still unlike) it someday. And I'll be sure to give your "Shades of Funk" a shot!

Thanks for the comments, everyone. Too bad that Hotbop is in (at least temporary) retirement from Internet activities, so he won't see the comments for a while! I also have another collaboration with him that was barely started that I'll attempt to give some polish to. Stay tuned.

- m

[Beardedone]

Digging this bigtime. Now this is real Jazz not the nonsense I make and the kind of Jazz I go for when I have a moment to just listen.

More than nod to Scofield, Frisell and Stern here. Pretty tasty piano too Markleford. And all to the guitar playing is simply excellent - the tone the whole schpiel! If that ain't an Ibanez or even an Gibby ES335, I will go back to playing flatwounds.


The Marsalis et al. Museum of Static Jazz is closed for reorientation.

Cheers.
Gordon

[griels]

The Marsalis et al. Museum of Static Jazz is closed for reorientation.

Amen..

[Beardedone]

Hey man!

Metheny in Montreal 5 shows. Frisell one show. I am so psyched!

[emdot_ambient]

Not Jazz in it's purest sense . . . but WHO THE f**k cares?! It rocks! It swings! It does that zaz-ma-razz-ma-tazz thing!

I disagree about the guitar and piano playing styles not meshing. True, they come from two different traditions, but they work as perfect compliments to each other. The piano keeps the rock-on guitar from becoming too formulaic and the guitar's determinedly steady pace keeps the wild piano improvisations from throwing the whole ensemble into disarray.

The drums . . . well, I wish you had had that live drummer. (The Kyma distraction? Wow, I could use a year or two of that kind of distraction

Otherwise, great job! Me likie!

[emdot_ambient]

"...one-off Naked City..."

For a second there I thought we were going to have the Communication Decency Act police swooping down on this thread

[herodotus]

Actually, it made me think of recent Brubeck (ala 'Tritonus', etc.)

Liked this a great deal.

Thanks!

[Beardedone]

Not Jazz in it's purest sense .

Please explain what you mean. I really distain the view that thre is such a thing as Pure Jazz.
Maybe you are not referring to style, I hope. As far as this track being real Jazz or not: Apart from the fact the Markleford and HotBop are not playing and interacting in real time and space eye to eye or ear to ear, there is beautiful rhythmic and melodic interplay happening Improvization is in large part what Jazz is. In Jazz style is diverse, individual and by definition, fiercely democratic.
This is more like Jazz than most pf the coffee-nosed stiff recreations of the Golden Age post bop stuff the likes of Wynton Marsalis would have you believe.

Gordon

[Programentalist]

Fight! Fight! Fight!





"This is not <insert genre here>" arguments tends to be pointless and always end in tears ime...

[Markleford]

In Jazz style is diverse, individual and by definition, fiercely democratic.

I like that description! Fiercely democratic!

Some say it's not "real jazz" unless you have a ride cymbal going "ding ding-a ding ding-a ding..."

- m

[Beardedone]

Thanks Markleford! This is a topic that can make my blood boil.

I almost had a seizure when I saw Ken Burns "Jazz". The condesending pseudo-seminars that Wynton and Crouch were spewing were unbearable. I was apoplectic. Thankfully I soon after read Pat Metheny's diatribe lambasting KennyG treatment of Louis Armstroung's "Wonderful World" and giving the Marsalis et al./Jazz Museum crowd a tongue lashing that was right on IMO. That was good therapy. I can't find it right now but I will search the PMG site and see if it is still up.

Best,
Gordon

[emdot_ambient]

Not Jazz in it's purest sense .

Please explain what you mean.

Woah! Slow down, thar, pardner!

I followed the "purest sense" comment up with "BUT WHO THE f**k Cares?!" meaning only to imply that some people (the proverbial "them") would not call it jazz, not that I don't consider it jazz. Actually I would call it jazz fusion because that's what they called the slamming together of rock and jazz back in my heyday (the '70s). But that's all genre talk and is essentially nonsense.

Ever watch Fred Astaire & Ginger Rogers movies? There's a line in one of them (Swing Time?) where Astaire is caught dancing to some swing music instead of doing ballet. Edward Everett Horton makes a disparaging remark about jazz and Astaire says something like, "Jazz? Why, that isn't jazz! Jazz went out with flappers!" Yet even the purest jazz aficionado today would classify swing as jazz.

Point is, the term has meant a lot of different things over the years and terminology doesn't matter. What matters is that this song kicks ass. End of story.