KVR Audio

mayan · Post by **mayan** » Thu May 12, 2005 7:12 pm

Actually, this may have been asked and discussed already on these hallowed boards BUT...what would set apart one limiter from another? Are there qualities to look at that may make one limiter "better" than another? For instance, what would be different between Waves L2 and the Reaktor Flatblaster or any other limiter for that matter?
Thanks.

greendoor · Post by **greendoor** » Fri May 13, 2005 3:10 am

The real question is "how much damage do they do?". All limiters can limit the signal to the specified ceiling, but some add more distortion than others. That may not be a bad thing - but it really is a matter of taste. I would prefer to choose my own distortion effects seperately, and have the clearest, most transparent limiter I can find. For me, that's Voxengo Elephant2.

electro · Post by **electro** » Fri May 13, 2005 4:16 am

Using Elephant2 and am very happy.

egbert · Post by **egbert** » Fri May 13, 2005 4:45 am

Elephant is very good indeed. Elemental Audio Finis and TBT Pocket limiter are right up there too IMO.

Warmonger · Post by **Warmonger** » Fri May 13, 2005 5:13 am

I like to use GPP-1 followed by Classic Master Limiter. It's a bit of a different approach from a typical mastering limiter like Elephant or the Waves, but I like it.

Lunch Money · Post by **Lunch Money** » Fri May 13, 2005 5:24 am

I can't speak to much commercial ware, but in freeware nothing beats George Yohng's W1 Limiter for straight-ahead no frill limiting in my experience. Of course, as with all things, that's personal experience and taste.

Greg

Amberience · Post by **Amberience** » Fri May 13, 2005 5:32 am

GPP-1 is my vote here, but also as Lunchy Munch mentioned, W1 is a great limiter, esp. with the Betabugs skin.

egbert · Post by **egbert** » Fri May 13, 2005 5:35 am

Warmonger wrote:I like to use GPP-1 followed by Classic Master Limiter. It's a bit of a different approach from a typical mastering limiter like Elephant or the Waves, but I like it.

Yes. I forgot GPP which is a useful output limiter too. The low latency means you can track with it if you need to or bounce down a part without having to worry about time alignment.

mayan · Post by **mayan** » Fri May 13, 2005 1:53 pm

thanks for the responses - really helpful - a few questions - what are the different approaches that limiters take -i.e. GPP as opposed to Waves/Elephant - are there different "types" of limiters? Also, what does "track with it" mean - you use it on tracks as opposed to full mixes or that you can use it in live situations?

egbert · Post by **egbert** » Fri May 13, 2005 2:02 pm

mayan wrote: Also, what does "track with it" mean - you use it on tracks as opposed to full mixes or that you can use it in live situations?

You are "tracking" when you are recording parts. I was referring to a situation where you may want to use a limiter on the output bus to control levels while overdubbing a new part.

Funkybot · Post by **Funkybot** » Fri May 13, 2005 2:23 pm

Lunch Money, the W1 is indeed quite good, but I gotta say I just love, absolutely love, the TLS Pocket Limiter (or 4032 as I've been calling it), as far as freeware limiters go. Especially once you start really driving it. I'm not sure if I'd always use it for mastering, but on a live electric bass in a loud rock mix, it's just amazing. It's all a matter of taste though, and the W1 is quite nice, and big ups to Betabugs for throwing a GUI on it and introducing it to me, as well as big ups to Daniel for releasing the Pocket Limiter.

And as to what makes a good or bad limmiter I'd say it depends on what you're looking at. Some, like the 4032 drive kind of nicely when pushed, while some, like Elephant, Finalis, or the W1 are meant to try and give you more volume w/ less distortion. You also have to listen to the distortion itself. A buddy of mine had the L1 a few years ago, and if you pushed it too hard it would just distort in a really nasty way, and I'm not even talking about what I'd consider to be huge gain increases. Newer limiters should let you get even more volume than the L1 before nasty distortion starts to creep in.

egbert · Post by **egbert** » Fri May 13, 2005 2:47 pm

Funkybot wrote: I gotta say I just love, absolutely love, the TLS Pocket Limiter (or 4032 as I've been calling it), as far as freeware limiters go. Especially once you start really driving it. I'm not sure if I'd always use it for mastering, but on a live electric bass in a loud rock mix, it's just amazing.

Yeah - it really kicks arse, doesn't it. Have you tried the Sat Driver on Elec Bass yet?

Eg

[ xerocreep ] · Post by **[ xerocreep ]** » Fri May 13, 2005 3:19 pm

Most limiters work using peaks. The biggest differences are in how they "release" whether it is a fixed time, or program dependant.

Personally I can never get enough of Buzzrooms grancomp 3 (3 band compressor with peak limiter on output) and Buzzmaxi (whatever version its at).

boin · Post by **boin** » Fri May 13, 2005 3:48 pm

Funkybot wrote:A buddy of mine had the L1 a few years ago, and if you pushed it too hard it would just distort in a really nasty way, and I'm not even talking about what I'd consider to be huge gain increases. Newer limiters should let you get even more volume than the L1 before nasty distortion starts to creep in.

Let me add a bit of personal experience. For quite some time the L1 was *the* standard for limiting. It was common to find reviews in magazines stating that the L1 alone was worth the price for the whole Waves bundle (!!?) Well, like a lot of people I used the L1 too...

One day I began to work again on a mix I had left aside for a while. But something was not right - it really sounded funny, a little "mudded". I could not realize what was causing it... until I found that I had forgotten a L1 in the master chain, doing about a 4dB limiting! Well, 4dB was considered "on the safe side" even in the L1 manual.

Question is: how could I not detect it when I began using the L1 in the first place? The answer is common to many psychoacoustic fenomena: our auditory system is not really well adapted to detect incremental changes that occur in a long period of time. You begin to experiment, not pushing things too far; a little bit of distortion comes but with a great volume increase, which can mask a lot of side effects; and in the end you hear what you think you should hear! That is why one should always take breaks while mixing/mastering or better still: give a couple days rest before final judgement.

I told this episode just to illustrate a few points: *any* limiter always introduce some degree of distortion; more limiting equals more distortion - always; there are trade-offs in a limiter design regarding how much distortion is added for a determined amount of limiting - this is usually called "transparency"; as a result, there are different kinds of limiters.

My suggestion: experiment with care; compare listening to the results after a few days. To my taste Voxengo's Elephant is the best (better than Waves L2 by far). It is worth a try.

Spe3D · Post by **Spe3D** » Fri May 13, 2005 3:59 pm

Elephant

– does not colour the sound like some do, but then you can get limiters, pay the earth, just to add colour – vintage warmer is used a lot by some to add colour for example.

You need to try them to find what fits your ‘taste’ in sound.

Best regards,

Spe3d

:O)

Limiters - Their Care and Feeding