Mr. Squids tell all

[nexussynth]

I think I should point out something significant concerning GPO.

Many of you seem to feel that it will compliment your other orchestral libraries. While not wishing to slam Garritan or GPO, I should point out, that as GPO's first buyer (according to Gary) I have been working with it longer than anybody except the beta people. I was quite enthused when it came out, it sounded much more realistic than my Edirol HQO and was easier to use than my Gigastudio libraries.

But..

Then I found that while it sounds good against Garritan's strings (it was derived from them) it simply won't 'mesh' with other libraries, including Miroslav (I own the orginal library from over ten years ago).

MV Philharmonik blows GPO away!

GPO often approaches 'GM sound' in large orchestrations involving brass writing.

I am no 'greenhorn' or 'newbie' when it comes to orchestral sound, having produced pro samples going back to the Emulator II. I frankly can't see how Garritan and company (skilled people that they are!) managed to get such an AWFUL thin sound out of the brass, particularily the trombones. Man those sound synthy!!

The new MV will be a much better compliment to the EWQLSO. The ambience of the hall is present unlike GPO's approach of totally dry samples. The strings of GPO don't sound too bad at all because they were recorded in the fine Lincoln Center rehersal hall. Not so the rest of the library but the woodwinds are nice because woods sound good up close anyway.

VSL suffers from this too, imho.

I believe that the Philharmonik will be THE library to beat at this price point. Save your money for it and don't be tempted by the GB for GPO. With all due respect to Gary Garritan and Tom Hopkins, I feel that the coming "Advanced" version of GPO is what the original library should be now.

Know also, that the GPO instruments operate off ONE single layer at a loud (ff) dynamic and use Kontakt eq changes and envelopes to mimic the other articulations and dynamics with only moderate success. This ALSO means that tracks recorded with GPO cannot have instruments substituted easily with another library like MV or QLSO or vice-versa, because GPO uses velocity only to control attack time. Volume changes are done with a mod wheel. So it can be seen that all the velocities will have to be adjusted and if cc#1 is mapped to some other parameter...whew!


Just thought y'all should know...

[Squids]

Interesting GPOV. I would imagine though that those parameters you're mentioning could be reprogrammed though if someone uses GPO in Kontakt. Velocity to different things etc. So, from that standpoint it could be made to match another library.

From a sound standpoint, I shouldn't really go at length about my full opinion of it but in general I agree that the string library he did was on another level (and also reflected in price). I think what he did was clever in terms of being known for making a pretty deluxe string library and then undercutting every other orchestral library with GPO. Surely it isn't as good as what a full orchestra done the same way he did the original string library would have been. But, I bet some people like to think it is. The difference with Miroslav is that it is the $4,000 library plus a lot more. It is better than what Miroslav put out himself and while the price of Philharmonik isn't pennies like GPO it is still affordable and reasonable yet you get a really deluxe collection that cost an incredible amount of money and time to make.

[sghoughton]

This just saved me a chunk.

thanks

steve

[Beardedone]

This I know. Philharmonik will be I think worth every penny just as Sonik Synth and all the other SR libraries.

[Squids]

This I know. Philharmonik will be I think worth every penny just as Sonik Synth and all the other SR libraries.

This is what we always try to do regardless of whatever else is out there. We'd do it the same anyway. We have our own concept of VFM that we shoot for.

[Kim Lajoie]

MV Philharmonik blows GPO away!

Are you beta testing? Can you tell us more?

Forever,




Kim.

[harmony gardens]

Thanks for these evaluations. I'm more anxious than ever to get Philharmonik, but it also makes me more confident in my decision to wait for it. That's actually about as good as getting $139 worth of epointz...

[Squids]

MV Philharmonik blows GPO away!

Are you beta testing? Can you tell us more?

Forever,

Kim.

He said he has the original MV library.

[Kim Lajoie]

Ok. Oops.

Forever,




Kim.

[Rellik]

Hmmm...

Thanks for the info, nexus. That partially influenced me to wait and not get in on the GPO group buy - IK sounds so good, after all. It's not just your points - I've been kind of under-impressed with the GPO demos (all but certain amazingly produced ones) and I think I actually would prefer a less difficult library to use after all.

Which is not to say that I will get IK Philharmonik - I would *really* like to, though. I think if the ST2XL 2.1 sound update was included along with the special cross-grade price, it would be a way more attractive proposition! I could explain why, but it would take a long time - it has to do with whether or not to get a conventional sampler that can play different sample formats. I'd rather feel completely comfortable with ST2's soundset before I go on to get another IK product - it sounds like the ST2.1 sound update will allow SampleTank 2 to surpass Sonik Synth 2 in terms of workstation-style and acoustic sounds, which it should.

[Kriminal]

I thought GPO changed to BT in the 80's.

[nexussynth]

MV Philharmonik blows GPO away!

Are you beta testing? Can you tell us more?

Forever,




Kim.

I wish I was!

As squids said, I was comparing the original library. Sorry for the confusion.

Actually, I spent some time importing the original material into Kontakt and its much better there, but it just doesn't/can't sound as good as this new version and one can tell just from the recent demo.

I also don't wish to imply that GPO is cr*p but it has had it's day (short-lived) and other libraries have come so far down in price as to render it somewhat mediocre. Garritan should permanently lower the price of it then it would be good for newbies, students etc.

I would never consider producing a finished demo using it to get work if I were a pro. (If your reading this Gary, I apologize, I am just cursed with having to tell it like I see it )

But..

It also is pretty easy to play with the mod-wheel and footswitch but I have tried reprogramming the samples in Kontakt for velocity response but it sounds bad when you do it that way, imho. The hard part of GPO is getting it to sit well with the reverb in a mix and it needs lots of eq and other stuff to make it shine. VSL has this problem too but it has better samples.

GPO Advanced is going to have alot more material and the Wagnerian instruments I mentioned earlier, so dear to film composers but it will still have the same programming approach and cost the same as the Philharmonik.

The price was ALWAYS the strong point of GPO though. Garritan was responsible for making the low price breakthrough in orchestral libraries and I respect him greatly for doing that. He even caught hell from a couple (nameless) competing developers who called him to complain about his low price!

Interestingly, it was the "New World" symphony excerpt that GPO demo'd that got me to buy it and I was so impressed at the little live excerpt on the demo of Philharmonik sounding much better!

There something gratifying about playing a well done orchestral layer with great samples and programming live from your keyboard (although I'm a lousy player I can still fool around and get what I need).

That is the attention getter in the musikmesse demo for many musicians I've talked with.

I also have just listened to the demos for the MOTU Symphonic Instrument and while it has a ton of material for a low price (and it also shames GPO) it sounds to me to have overall, a 'boxey' sound to it with too much compression. Even experimenting with high quality reverb on the demos does little to alleviate this.

The new miroslav samples sound quite open and airy in comparison. I think they are on a par with the expensive EWQLSO GOLD (which I also own).

Time will tell....

[Squids]

Interesting stuff. It's funny that you mention the New World Symphony because that has always been one of my favorites. In fact, I am working on a Miroslav demo of the New World right now. Miroslav even recorded the orchestra in the Dvorak Symphony Hall in Prague! So, it is a fitting example of the sounds in action. Plus you can compare it straight to GPO if you want. Although I am doing more of the whole piece than he did so you can see some of the various moods and dynamics. Pretty powerful stuff! A lot of fun too. Inspiring. Makes me want to just stop everything and write music.

If you have the Miroslav orchestra library then you know that it isn't about being perfect. It is about aesthetics, emotion, musicality and acoustic space. There's a magic there and with some TLC on the technical side as well as digging into additional unreleased archives for more we've been able to bring out some of its best qualities and potential.

It's a beautiful collection regardless of whatever else may be out there. I happen to like orchestral libraries and I appreciate when there's been a great effort.

[nexussynth]

Interesting stuff. It's funny that you mention the New World Symphony because that has always been one of my favorites. In fact, I am working on a Miroslav demo of the New World right now. Miroslav even recorded the orchestra in the Dvorak Symphony Hall in Prague! So, it is a fitting example of the sounds in action. Plus you can compare it straight to GPO if you want. Although I am doing more of the whole piece than he did so you can see some of the various moods and dynamics. Pretty powerful stuff! A lot of fun too. Inspiring. Makes me want to just stop everything and write music.

If you have the Miroslav orchestra library then you know that it isn't about being perfect. It is about aesthetics, emotion, musicality and acoustic space. There's a magic there and with some TLC on the technical side as well as digging into additional unreleased archives for more we've been able to bring out some of its best qualities and potential.

It's a beautiful collection regardless of whatever else may be out there. I happen to like orchestral libraries and I appreciate when there's been a great effort.

Good to hear about the New World demo! There is no time like the present to bring the Miroslav library out in a form that modern technology can finally do justice to. I found the old library hard to work with under my old K-2000 and EMU samplers. I spent alot of time getting it setup for those, only to do it again with the Gigastudio and then Kontakt.

Whew! I'm sure glad somebody else is doing all that hard work this time!

I would still like to see an instrument listing and see whats new.

The MV has a unique sound that compliments most libraries out now. I love the slight swells which a few didn't like but which lend a nice 'ebb and flow' to many pieces. Quite musical actually.

[telebunke]

The price was ALWAYS the strong point of GPO though. Garritan was responsible for making the low price breakthrough in orchestral libraries and I respect him greatly for doing that. He even caught hell from a couple (nameless) competing developers who called him to complain about his low price!

Hmmm, is that a 100% sure statement of s.th. that happend truely or is it more like gossip?

tele