EQ when mixing

[apan]

I’m a bit curious about how people work with eq’s in the mix. I’ve been listening to some great music that has been posted here and I’ve realized I need to improve my mixing skills. So, I get that it’s all about finding “the core” of different sounds and making them overlap as little as possible. But how literally should one understand this? Do you assign each sound to a particular frequency area and try to keep everything else out of it? Or is it rather a matter of subtle changes? Any other things to consider?

[P.T.]

I don't try to keep each sound in it's own space and cut out all other sounds in that range. rather it's about finding each instruments primary important frequency area and emphasizing that a little and cutting other sounds a little in that area.

It's good to use sounds that are distinctive to begin with. Then they will automatically not clash.

[scamme]

I don't try to keep each sound in it's own space and cut out all other sounds in that range. rather it's about finding each instruments primary important frequency area and emphasizing that a little and cutting other sounds a little in that area.

It's good to use sounds that are distinctive to begin with. Then they will automatically not clash.

All this can pass electronic music mixing, as for accoustic instruments this is very, very wrong.

[feyshay]

All this can pass electronic music mixing, as for accoustic instruments this is very, very wrong.

'splain?

[apan]

All this can pass electronic music mixing, as for accoustic instruments this is very, very wrong.

I primarily work with accoustic sounds so, I´d be very interested in knowing how and why it is so...

[RandyHancock]

I don't try to keep each sound in it's own space and cut out all other sounds in that range. rather it's about finding each instruments primary important frequency area and emphasizing that a little and cutting other sounds a little in that area.

It's good to use sounds that are distinctive to begin with. Then they will automatically not clash.

All this can pass electronic music mixing, as for accoustic instruments this is very, very wrong.

Wrong to who?

Man, I really want to see this book of audio right and wrong that some people seem to be reading from. I wonder who wrote it.

Anyway, all these techniques are valid in certain circumstances. Sometimes you need to find the primary frequency and boost it. Sometimes you need to cut some parts to make room for another. Sometimes a part doesn't have a primary frequency and you can boost it wherever is right for your mix. Sometimes you can put a high-pass on one part and a low-pass on another that is clashing.

The basic idea is that you don't want your parts stepping on each other. View your mix in 3 dimensions: amplitude, stereo, and frequency spectrum. You can use this "3D space" to give your parts their own place in the mix. Use EQ and filters to give the parts their place in the frequency spectrum. There is no right or wrong way to do it. Just start experimenting and you'll figure out ways that work for your music.

Some people are going to try to tell you the "right" way, such as "always cut never boost" or whatever. That might work for them and be "right" for them but it doesn't mean it's right for you. You might make completely different sounding music and their technique might not apply. "If it sounds right, it is right."

Here's a quick list of guidelines. Don't be afraid to break them

1. Find the fundamental with a band-sweep and boost it.
2. Don't boost 2 parts at the same frequency.
3. Cut the other parts where you've boosted one.
4. hp/lp filters can sometimes be just the thing.
5. Don't forget about panning and amplitude.

One last thing. Get hydtratone and valvetone once you get the feel for these techniques. It's a whole different world than your typical digital eq plug.

-r

[scamme]

All this can pass electronic music mixing, as for accoustic instruments this is very, very wrong.

I primarily work with accoustic sounds so, I´d be very interested in knowing how and why it is so...

Every accoustic instrument have his range of frequencys ( vocals +/- 500-3200hz etc.) and no one can't change it unless you want to do it on perpose, it'll sound shitty though.

[bobby yarrow]

Acoustic music is more difficult in some regards because sources sound unnatural if eq'd wrong. Boosting the center frequency of an instrument is effectively the same as cutting all the harmonics and overtones, which will make tend to make a nice guitar or fiddle sound like a bad sample.

There's really no simple answer to the broader question of how to eq. The engineers I've worked with all do it differently, and they all make good mixes. Broad parameters are out there, but I don't know how helpful they are.

I'll recite them without endorsement: roll the bottom off everything except the kick, and maybe the snare and bass, somewhere between 50 and 500 hz; cut narrowly, boost broadly; cut to make things sound prettier, boost to make things stand out; watch for build-up in the low mids between 200 and 500. There's some for you.

[scamme]

I don't try to keep each sound in it's own space and cut out all other sounds in that range. rather it's about finding each instruments primary important frequency area and emphasizing that a little and cutting other sounds a little in that area.

It's good to use sounds that are distinctive to begin with. Then they will automatically not clash.

All this can pass electronic music mixing, as for accoustic instruments this is very, very wrong.

Wrong to who?

Wrong to accousticaly recorded instrument! isn't it

And in case of boosting and cutting the "Q" have a very important part to play.

[jeffn1]

There are a bunch of article on the web that discuss approaches to EQ, such as what part of what frequencies in particular isnturments to get a particular effect. For example, some articles discuss what EQ settings are often used so that the kick drum and bass do not step on each other. What frequency of bottom of guitars may be cut so they do not step on the bass, etc.

jeffn1

[M'Snah]

All this can pass electronic music mixing, as for accoustic instruments this is very, very wrong.

I primarily work with accoustic sounds so, I´d be very interested in knowing how and why it is so...

Every accoustic instrument have his range of frequencys ( vocals +/- 500-3200hz etc.) and no one can't change it unless you want to do it on perpose, it'll sound shitty though.

Then EVERY book on mixing and mastering is wrong!! because they ALL advise to 'play' with the frequencies of the instruments.


but to answer the initial question: IMO an important first step - already implicit in Randy's post: panning. If you pan each instrument to its own position, and regard the centre and extreme left/right as 'forbidden zones', then you'll have to EQ a lot less. This makes mixing a lot easier than putting everything in the centre and try to solve problems with EQ...

[neverwhere2012]

this really is something that depends on the musical style and sounds involved. that's going to dictate the technique used. for instance, if i'm working with heavily distorted guitars, i generally throw a highpass filter in at around 100 Hz -- occassionally 130 Hz if it's seriously downtuned guitars because a lot of muddy crap will exist below that. i let the bass fill in that low end. if i want to get better tone out of the guitars, i'll often Eq "harmonically", that is, i'll boost a random midrange frequency on one guitar -- say 500 Hz -- and then usually quadruple that and boost slightly less -- in this case 2KHz. then i'll adjust to see whether a wide or narrow Q sounds better. i'll pick a different set of frequencies for the other guitar to get a clear distinction in tone between the 2. also, with high gain guitars, i'll throw a lowpass filter on it and roll off sometimes down to 6-7KHz. this usually lets the cymbals and hi-hats come through in a mix a lot better.

it's really about just trying to listen to the full mix and pick out places that don't sound quite right, where frequencies are masking each other or building up and creating a mess, then correcting it.

[scamme]

to M'Snah:

To play - Yes, but in a instruments range of freq's.

[RandyHancock]

to M'Snah:

To play - Yes, but in a instruments range of freq's.

I completely agree that boosting frequencies that aren't there will get you nothing. This is also true in electronic music. This is where those frequency charts can be helpful with acoustic music. With electronic material, using a frequency sweep or spectrum analyzer to find the frequencies of a sound before you start eqing is really helpful.

You have a valid point, it just would have helped if you had elaborated a little more in the original post.

-r

[One]

Hi Apan

Get some better monitors and use your ears. It all comes down to that anyway!