ACID Pro 5 - 2005 PAR Excellence Award winner

[Debutante]

I would like to know, out of newbie curiosity, what it is that everyone wants out of ACID and is not getting. I have used ACID a little bit, but never any comparable program. Aside from poor VST support, what other specific problems are people having using ACID. From what I see of it, it is simply an arrangement tool, not a dedicated sequencer or otherwise, with some audio editing capabilities, but it sounds like other users want to use ACID like you would Cubase SX or FL Studio. Am I wrong about this or is there something I'm missing.

What is it specifically that everyone seems to be having trouble with? There is a concensus, so as a newbie, I have to be curious about the specifics behind it. There's alot of venom here, and it seems to run along the same thread. So, what's that thread made of, is what I'm asking.

[billybk1]

billybk1:
If v5b has fixed a lot of bugs then great, however the review that you linked to will not have been done on v5b and the award will have been decided on an earlier version too most likely.

The latest 5b update was just released, while the 5a update has been out for almost 2.5 months. The annual AES convention was last month, well after the 5a, March 8th release. The 5a release did fix a lot of lingering issues, from the initial release though. The most prominent bugs/issues were resolved, in 5a, BTW.

[neverwhere2012]

wow... that's really sad that they put acid on the same level as nuendo and logic pro 7. i had to use acid pro 5 for a whole semester as part of the basic midi sequencing class i needed for my music degree (don't know why the instructor chose acid for a MIDI class).

that program is the most lame entry level piece of shit. i swear, GARAGEBAND is more intuitive, easy to use and has more features than acid. that really angers me.... sorry if i'm pissing on any acid users, but damn. that program does not deserve that kind of recognition.

[bmanic]

This is really disturbing news indeed. Shows that again that a big company with big money behind it can get any award they want. Such a shame.. IMHO Ableton is a far superior product and would have deserved the award.



- bManic

[munchkin]

billybk1:
If v5b has fixed a lot of bugs then great, however the review that you linked to will not have been done on v5b and the award will have been decided on an earlier version too most likely.

The latest 5b update was just released, while the 5a update has been out for almost 2.5 months. The annual AES convention was last month, well after the 5a, March 8th release. The 5a release did fix a lot of lingering issues, from the initial release though. The most prominent bugs/issues were resolved, in 5a, BTW.

I've just installed the 5b update and all my plugs were registered without ACID crashing. I'm very pleased about this but I'd still like specific tools to troubleshoot any VST that gives ACID problems. I like the way Cakewalks adapter handles VST and offers a number of options to troubleshoot VST. I hope that in future Sony will beta new features thoroughly before marketing a product but that's just wishful thinking.

So far so good! But I still think Sony are skinflints when it comes to new upgrade features. Vegas 6 is an example of a lack luster upgrade. They've pumped it full of HD options at the expense of everything else so they can sell more HD hardware.

[munchkin]

wow... that's really sad that they put acid on the same level as nuendo and logic pro 7. i had to use acid pro 5 for a whole semester as part of the basic midi sequencing class i needed for my music degree (don't know why the instructor chose acid for a MIDI class).

that program is the most lame entry level piece of shit. i swear, GARAGEBAND is more intuitive, easy to use and has more features than acid. that really angers me.... sorry if i'm pissing on any acid users, but damn. that program does not deserve that kind of recognition.

I'm an ACID user and I agree with you. There's no point pretending ACID competes on the same level as the other hosts. But it still has its own charm when it comes to loop construction. I wish Sonar had the level of loop features that ACID has. I think the tracktion-like single interface is lovely to work with. So credit where credit's due.

[waiting man]

I find it THE host for loop construction. and I'm glad the this snobby billybk gets his job done, he can quietly sit on the acid's ability to burn cds. for me, the program died some time ago, I spent a lot triyng to make it work, uselessly. just the fact that it has a button "to publish songs..." makes me fall from the chair.

[cold c]

I am an ACID PRO user and aware of its strengths such as chopping and aranging audio, but version 5 was not all I hoped it would be:

• Incorrect system requirements specification:
  • The requirements specify "Microsoft .NET Framework 1.1 SP1 (included on CD-ROM)"
  • The ACTUAL requirements are ".NET 1.1" AND "MDAC 2.8" AND "MSDE".
• The installation of MSDE installs a service that is constantly on regardless of whether Media manager is activated or not, and still active even when ACID PRO 5 is not running. A general aim of good DAW configuration is usually for fewer constantly active Windows services.
• ACID PRO 5 does not stop the MSDE (sqlserver) service when ACID exits, even when media manager is disabled.
• Poor VST implementation including:
  • Poor automation, no way to automate insert effect parameters on VSTi tracks (the parameters can be selected as automatable, but no corresponding envelope track can be inserted??!) It only works on insert fx for audio tracks, not on inserts for VSTi tracks.
  • No ability to route MIDI to VST insert effects to automate them (or process the MIDI). MIDI data can only be routed to synths.
  • No ability to utilise MIDI out to host from VST plugins
• Poor MIDI functionality (it hasn't improved in the recent versions).
• No control surface ability
• Mouse automation can't be recorded
• The envelopes all on the same track become less clear as more parameters are added.
• The challenge/response copy protection
• The repeated crashes on scanning for plugins
• Interface is clunky, not smooth by modern DAW standards.
• Sony increased the normal upgrade price from $99 to $150
• Lack of audio multitrack ability:
  • There are already various audio track types including "one shot", "looped" and "beatmapped", so why not introduce another for multi-track audio?? For example, one that can have multiple audio parts recorded on to it, just take the track type from another of the sonyfo software applications (vegas etc.).

I was also disappointed to find that ReWire with ACID PRO 5 doesn't work without minor pops/clicks at the loop point when slaved to SX3 on my system, it is probably an issue with SX3 + my audio card drivers, but it's difficult to tell as support from all companies has been minimal. Perhaps if I get another audio interface in future I'll try to get it working again.

[billybk1]

...I'm glad the this snobby billybk gets his job done, he can quietly sit on the acid's ability to burn cds.

If by snobby, you mean, not letting you get by, with making baseless erroneous statements, as if they are indeed fact, then so be it.

...it's the same bloody app from number3 with added rewire.
oh, yeah, I forgot Beatmapping...clap, clap, clap.

Come on, what was the real point of, jumping in and making that baseless statement, other than to pile on and slam ACID? If you are tying to prove a point, at least, get your facts straight.


Oh, and yes, ACID Pro 5, does indeed burn ACID projects to redbook DOA CD's, directly from the timeline and it does it very well too. This was added in ACID Pro 5.0, btw.

[billybk1]

I am an ACID PRO user and aware of its strengths such as chopping and aranging audio, but version 5 was not all I hoped it would be.

Hey cold c, have you installed the latest 5.0b(build 324) update. It addresses many of the issues you have listed, in particular, the SQL server does now stop, when ACID exits. At least, it does now, on my computers. I verified this with the Windows Task Manager.

[cold c]

I am an ACID PRO user and aware of its strengths such as chopping and aranging audio, but version 5 was not all I hoped it would be.

Hey cold c, have you installed the latest 5.0b(build 324) update. It addresses many of the issues you have listed, in particular, the SQL server does now stop, when ACID exits. At least, it does now, on my computers. I verified this with the Windows Task Manager.

Sqlserver stops (the process in task manager) but the Windows service does not stop. A Windows service is not the same as a process in task manager. (You can verify this for yourself in control panel >> administrative tools >> services).

I tried version 5.0b and it suffers all of the failings I listed above, of course it is an improvement from the more obvious issues of 5.0, but there is an underlying lack of quality and thought compared to other audio software applications. I can't see how it could win an award of any real integrity.

[billybk1]

Sqlserver stops (the process in task manager) but the Windows service does not stop. A Windows service is not the same as a process in task manager. (You can verify this for yourself in control panel >> administrative tools >> services).

Yes, it quits completely, even the Windows service. I even have the Media Manager enabled (which I use a lot), by default. Do you have the Shut down database service on exit, option checked? It is located on the Media Manager Options|General tab, from the Media Manager window. I have mine permanantly docked, as a tab, you may have to activate it, from Preferences and then open the Media Manager window view or (Alt + 5) to get to it. Once checked, you will need to close out of ACID, for this option to take effect. Now the next time you open and then close ACID the MSSQL$SONY_MEDIAMGR will shutdown, on exit. If you have the Services window open, you may have to click Refresh, from the Actions
menu to actually verify, that it has indeed shutdown.

[cold c]

Do you have the Shut down database service on exit, option checked? It is located on the Media Manager Options|General tab, from the Media Manager window.

Thanks for that info.

Of course, when media manager is disabled that option is not accessible, it should automatically disable the service when media manager is disabled from preferences as it no longer has any reason to be active. It doesn't really make sense that to disable a feature fully it must first be enabled fully, it is poor interface abstraction (poor HCI).

The fact that the option is only accessible when media manager is enabled, and disabling the media manager doesn't automatically disable the Windows service, only reinforces my opinion that ACID PRO 5 has not acheived the level of quality set by other audio software.

Do you happen to know if the developers will be addressing any of the other issues I detailed above in future 5.x updates?

.

[billybk1]

The installation of MSDE installs a service that is constantly on regardless of whether Media manager is activated or not, and still active even when ACID PRO 5 is not running. A general aim of good DAW configuration is usually for fewer constantly active Windows services.

If you are talking about the MSSQL$SONY_MEDIAMGR, there is an option to permanantly close it upon exit.

ACID PRO 5 does not stop the MSDE (sqlserver) service when ACID exits, even when media manager is disabled.

There is an option to permanantly close the MSSQL$SONY_MEDIAMGR upon exit.

Poor MIDI functionality (it hasn't improved in the recent versions).

Basic MIDI functions were only first introduced, from scratch, in ACID 4. Since the initial 4.0 release these MIDI/VSTi related improvements have been made:


4.0a
ACID now sends tempo, meter, and starting point information to VSTi plug-ins when you begin playback.

4.0b
The Set Default Track Properties dialog now allows you to set default OPT editors for MIDI tracks.

You can now change VSTi buffer size and buffer flushing settings to resolve VSTi sync problems in rendered output and problems with VSTi decay not being flushed when playback stops.

You can now change patches for DLS synths in real-time using the Soft Synth Properties dialog

A keyboard has been added to the Soft Synth Properties window so you can audition DLS soft synths when Enable Real-Time MIDI is turned on.

4.0c
The setting of the Enable Real-Time MIDI button now persists after it has been set.

You can now choose a default DLS voice set that will be used whenever you add a DLS soft synth. In the Soft Synth Properties window, select a voice set and click the Set as Default DLS Voice Set button.

Editing and drawing in the piano roll have been improved.

ACID is now a ReWire mixer (host) application. Use the ReWire Devices tab in the Preferences dialog to set up the ReWire panel applications you want to make available in ACID. When you add a Soft Synth control to the ACID mixer, you can route that control to a ReWire panel. During playback, ACID will send song position data to the ReWire panel, and the panel will send its audio data back to ACID for playback through the Soft Synth control. With ReWire 2.0 panels, you can also route MIDI tracks to synths in the ReWire panel.

You can now edit continuous controller information in the piano roll.

A new preference has been added to the MIDI tab in the Preferences dialog. Select the Auto MIDI input routing check box if you want ACID to automatically route MIDI input devices to the last-accessed soft synth (you access a soft synth by double-clicking the soft synth control in the Mixer window or by selecting a track that is routed to the soft synth). The Solo Listen to MIDI Input button in the Soft Synth Properties window is unavailable when this check box is selected.

5.0
Multiport VSTi soft synth support

ReWire device(slave) support

MIDI editing workflow advancements

Snap-to-scale filtering in the piano roll

5.0a
ACID playback now follows host time signature when used as a ReWire device

5.0b
Several changes have been made to improve MIDI recording

Effect automation envelopes on bus tracks are no longer bypassed when in ReWire device mode

The Soft Synth Properties windows are no longer disabled when busses and tracks are muted. A Muted indicator is displayed in the windows, and the contents of the windows are dimmed.


MIDI functions, have been a contant work in progress, since 4.0. To expect, the MIDI functionality, to be on par with the likes of Cakewalk or Steinberg (companies that have been doing MIDI for 20 years), is a bit naive. For me, the MIDI functionality, in ACID, is more than I'll ever use. When I want to do heavy duty MIDI, I'll rewire to SONAR or Project 5. For an odd MIDI track here or there, ACID Pro 5b, works fine for me. Of course, everyone's expectations are different. Truth be told, if SONY, did not do another thing to improve the MIDI functionality, in ACID, I would never notice it, or care, as I rarely use it anyway.
I have much more advanced apps to handle those chores.

No control surface ability

I am sure this would be a welcome improvement. Not for me though, as all I have is a Contour Shuttle Pro, which works fine, in ACID 5, as it is.

Mouse automation can't be recorded

Not sure what you mean here. I do all my automation via the envelope nodes, which is my preferred method.

The envelopes all on the same track become less clear as more parameters are added.

You do have the option to show/hide the volume, pan and parameter envelopes, as needed. You also, have the option of adjusting/changing any envelope color, for better clarity. I rarely have more than a handful of parameter envelopes on any given track, but I would imagine if I had scores of envelopes, it would get a little messy. It has not been a problem thus far for me.

The challenge/response copy protection

The ol' pick your poison scenario. Of course, I would much prefer, Cakewalk's CP method, of just a serial number. But I much prefer Sony's challenge/response method to a silly dongle(Steinberg), PACE or ILOK. I can even install my Sony apps (Vegas, DVD Architect, Sound Forge & ACID), on multiple computers, at the same time. In fact, I have ACID Pro activated and open on both my laptop and desktop DAW's, as we speak. Just last week, a did a total, re-format & re-install, of XP and all my apps, on my laptop, including all my Sony apps, with zero problems getting immediately activated @ 2AM, in the morning. A real non-issue, as far as I'm concerned.

The repeated crashes on scanning for plugins

The latest 5.0b is a lot more forgiving and does not constantly rescan, every plugin, each time you open ACID. I have about 100 VST/VSTi plugins and I recall only one plugin (I think it was the Edirol Super Quartet), that I had a problem with. My UAD-1 VST plugins work like a dream, with full PDC, and full automation, in ACID, BTW.

Interface is clunky, not smooth by modern DAW standards.

This is all a matter of personal preference, of course. I love the GUI, and it's ease of use and uncluttered interface, keyboard shortcuts, the mouse wheel scroll zoom, the separate editing playback head, the gapless editing, etc, etc, etc... is precisely why I enjoy using ACID. You want to see a clunky, cluttered interface, check out SAW Studio (which costs thousands, for the full version), now there is a cluttered interface. But, many users seem to like it.

Sony increased the normal upgrade price from $99 to $150

The normal upgrade price has always been $149.00, as long as I remember and I bought every upgrade since version 1.0, in 1999. There is usually a short introductory period, for $99.00, for upgrader's. Plus this time, whether you needed or not, you got some extra value (a loop CD and NI's Express Keyboards), in the deal.

Lack of audio multitrack ability:

• There are already various audio track types including "one shot", "looped" and "beatmapped", so why not introduce another for multi-track audio?? For example, one that can have multiple audio parts recorded on to it, just take the track type from another of the sonyfo software applications (vegas etc.).

I agree some multi-track capability would be a good thing. I would further like to do away with that Record dialog box, as well. A live Input Monitoring option would be high on my list too. I would love to be able to patch Amplitude or a Nigel amp sim in and play my Les Paul through it, in realtime.
I think these would be some ideal new features, for ACID Pro 6.

I was also disappointed to find that ReWire with ACID PRO 5 doesn't work without minor pops/clicks at the loop point when slaved to SX3 on my system, it is probably an issue with SX3 + my audio card drivers, but it's difficult to tell as support from all companies has been minimal. Perhaps if I get another audio interface in future I'll try to get it working again.

Hmmmm......I have not had any problems rewiring ACID Pro 5 to either SONAR 4.02 or Project 5 2.0, the project looping is glitch free. I have a friend who uses a Pro Tools system, and it is working fine for him, as well.

Best Regards,

Billy Buck

[Cabinfever]

billybk your 'corporate trolling' is really getting a bit much. cutting and pasting sony propaganda into these forums is in bad taste.

you're not going to convince anyone that shit tastes good by dumping in slabs of text.

better to go back to the sony forum and keep trying to convince angry newbies that they've haven't just blown their cash