KVR Audio

Rellik · Post by **Rellik** » Mon May 23, 2005 2:14 am

I don't think I see your point, Hink, but I'm willing to agree that you probably have one and we're probably BOTH right! YAY

that is a good ending to the discussion!

I agree, jzero. Although in the case of the Step Sequencer, most of the "pro"s I know use it for their drum programming as well (pro = makes money, which as we all know is not really a meaningful distinction, but is being used in that context). Also, the Step Sequencer doesn't bother anybody - the Piano Roll goes right on top of it if it's being used, and there needs to be space there for the piano roll in any case.

Donkey · Post by **Donkey** » Mon May 23, 2005 2:37 am

I think people who want SS out, want FL to look little complicated to the beginers[the person who tries it for first time and dosnt know anything about sequencers has something right in front of him to make a beat(all he need to do is click, click, click, and play)].

Can anyone tell me what purpose it will serve to remove it?

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Mon May 23, 2005 2:45 am

Donkey wrote:I think people who want SS out, want FL to look little complicated to the beginers[the person who tries it for first time and dosnt know anything about sequencers has something right in front of him to make a beat(all he need to do is click, click, click, and play)].

Can anyone tell me what purpose it will serve to remove it?

I just dont need it there, a simple option to go to my vst's and dxi's from the Piano Roll would be great, and make it an option.

However without sounding like a complete jerk, I think the SS cheapens the appearence of FL. That method of step programming is getting more and more atiquated, it's too "toyish" for me...but that's just my opinion...

hoffy · Post by **hoffy** » Mon May 23, 2005 2:53 am

I think the step sequencer is perfect for creating drum loops...

and thats all i use Fruity Loops for.

The piano roll in FL is f**king terrible.

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Mon May 23, 2005 2:57 am

The piano roll in FL is f**king terrible.

care to ellaborate? I dont think anyone here would suggest such a thing. Even if you dont like it you have to admire it;s strenghths

hoffy · Post by **hoffy** » Mon May 23, 2005 3:09 am

What strengths would that be?

i don't like a few things about it- primarily that there is no "repeat" function that i know of (Like in Cubase and Pro Tools), and i instead have to use the absolutely HORRIBLE method of changing my cursor to
"select", selecting the notes, copying them, pasting them, then changing my cursor to "Brush" to move them around. Terrible.

There are heaps of other things i hate about the piano roll but i really can't be bothered explaining them. Some apects of the piano roll i would call irritating, and other aspectss i would call "bugs".

Anyway, I own SX3 and FL and i've had no problems using them together, either through Rewire or from exporting and importing audio files...

So do you mind telling me what is good about the Piano Roll in FL? Can u explain what 'strengths' it has over the Cubase equivelant?

hoffy · Post by **hoffy** » Mon May 23, 2005 3:10 am

oh, and another thing i hate is the "quantizer" doesn't seem to work properly.

And it doesn't have unlimited Undos... which i would consider an essential item in a "professional" application.

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Mon May 23, 2005 3:34 am

hoffy wrote:What strengths would that be?

i don't like a few things about it- primarily that there is no "repeat" function that i know of (Like in Cubase and Pro Tools), and i instead have to use the absolutely HORRIBLE method of changing my cursor to
"select", selecting the notes, copying them, pasting them, then changing my cursor to "Brush" to move them around. Terrible.

There are heaps of other things i hate about the piano roll but i really can't be bothered explaining them. Some apects of the piano roll i would call irritating, and other aspectss i would call "bugs".

Anyway, I own SX3 and FL and i've had no problems using them together, either through Rewire or from exporting and importing audio files...

So do you mind telling me what is good about the Piano Roll in FL? Can u explain what 'strengths' it has over the Cubase equivelant?

1 you're wrong use the selct tool make a loop and it will repeat all you want. BTE "E" is selct "P" is the pencil tool

2.Stengths The atriculator, the chord feature, the arp, the quantize, the chop (I know you don't like it but I suspect you dont understand it), flam, the fact that you can trol the lengthst of the notes, the fact the you can quickly adjust the velocity, the ghost channels, the flexibility in the snap (grid feature), the fact it can be any length and you can loop any section of one pattern, loop record (using song mode and highligting the loop area in the piano roll) the fact that notes cut off by length is nice, the fact that it's bigger then a little dropdown box like in the SS (unless of course all your music is one note), the dropdown menu in the pianoroll for channels make switching channels a breeze, the mapped GM drum keys, the zoom feature (upper right corner box)...the fact it's in a musical arrangement as opposed to little buttons...sorry I studied to play instruments, pushing buttons just comes naturally, the ability to copy and paste real quick then make subtle changes for fills, being able to use scores, being able to save scores (if you drag and drop a pattern ontro the ss it just goes to the piano roll anyhow....do I need to go on?

EDIT: I can't compare it to Cubase, I dont have it...but my comparison and yours was between the SS and pianoroll of FL.

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Mon May 23, 2005 3:38 am

hoffy wrote:oh, and another thing i hate is the "quantizer" doesn't seem to work properly.

And it doesn't have unlimited Undos... which i would consider an essential item in a "professional" application.

again you have no clue..what do you mean no mutiple undos...look in your browser see that thing history...that's not world history..

Carbonboy · Post by **Carbonboy** » Mon May 23, 2005 12:35 pm

hoffy wrote:What strengths would that be?

i don't like a few things about it- primarily that there is no "repeat" function that i know of (Like in Cubase and Pro Tools), and i instead have to use the absolutely HORRIBLE method of changing my cursor to
"select", selecting the notes, copying them, pasting them, then changing my cursor to "Brush" to move them around. Terrible.

Hoffy, learn to use the Ctrl and Shift keys... >> www.fisherbiz.com/keys.swf

thockin · Post by **thockin** » Tue May 24, 2005 5:07 am

Here's what I need out of FL.

1) merge the audio clips and automation clips and patterns together (in the playlist), so I can intermix them.
2) show me the PRoll notes in the playlist("Piano Roll Clips", if you like)
3) let me zoom WAY further in, so the PRoll notes are useful in the playlist
4) let me collapse a bunch of lanes into one, displaying them all as overlay (so my drums could collapse to one lane)
5) a flexible mixer

I really want a linear sequencer which has pattern lanes and folder lanes. I *love* FL's piano-roll, and I like most of it's UI. The playlist is just bad, and it encourages overuse of looped patterns, resulting in "that FL sound".

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Tue May 24, 2005 4:07 pm

Ras Upsettah I wrote:One last thing if I may bduffy: does SX 3 have any ability to use the properties of an Acidized WAV? More to the point I guess, does a sample NEED to be Acidized to utilize the SX 3 timestretch etc functions?

many thanks,
Ras.

Sorry, I missed this; I'm not around much on the weekends. So to answer: Yes, SX finally has ACID support. So now you have ACID, ReCycle and Cubase's own Time-warp/quantize/tempo features. You should check out the full product page at Steinberg's site. I think they have some videos up there that can give you an idea.

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Tue May 24, 2005 10:29 pm

thockin wrote:Here's what I need out of FL.

1) merge the audio clips and automation clips and patterns together (in the playlist), so I can intermix them.
2) show me the PRoll notes in the playlist("Piano Roll Clips", if you like)
3) let me zoom WAY further in, so the PRoll notes are useful in the playlist
4) let me collapse a bunch of lanes into one, displaying them all as overlay (so my drums could collapse to one lane)
5) a flexible mixer

I really want a linear sequencer which has pattern lanes and folder lanes. I *love* FL's piano-roll, and I like most of it's UI. The playlist is just bad, and it encourages overuse of looped patterns, resulting in "that FL sound".

I assume you know that the upper right corner of the playlist, piano roll and event editor is a box that is far more precise then the view options...when you see the arrows on your cursor just drag it.

I don't understand "lanes"

I believe the mixer is pretty flexible. I agree that some could use more sends but that's not a need for my use, but I would like to see rms buttons and I would like to see the mixer go full screen.

Now I'm confused by your name...when I read it I was pretty sure I knew who you were...however your post doesn't correspond with posts from him at FL....so is it you or not?

hoffy · Post by **hoffy** » Thu May 26, 2005 5:40 am

Hink wrote: 1 you're wrong use the selct tool make a loop and it will repeat all you want. BTE "E" is selct "P" is the pencil tool

Actually, i'm not wrong, it's just that you are stupid- you obviously haven't used a professional sequencer, and therefore, you don't understand what the repeat function is (Ctrl+D in Pro-Tools, i think). And i don't have the time to explain it to you. Oh, and i know the shortcuts for the Pencil, Brush, and Select Tools, thank you

Carbonboy wrote: Hoffy, learn to use the Ctrl and Shift keys... >> www.fisherbiz.com/keys.swf

Yes, i'm aware of these shortcuts as well, but the fact that i have to use so many of them- select, copy, paste- as well as a lot of fiddlefucking around with the mouse- to do a simple operation that Pro-tools and Cubase can do with one command makes me think that the Piano Roll is underdeveloped. Especially when compared to piano rolls in other sequencers.

Hink wrote: EDIT: I can't compare it to Cubase, I dont have it...

Oh, that makes sense then. When you've graduated from playing with kids toys, give me a buzz =)

Hink wrote: I assume you know that the upper right corner of the playlist, piano roll and event editor is a box that is far more precise then the view options...when you see the arrows on your cursor just drag it.

This wasn't directed at me, but I'd just like to say that this box is anything but "precise". With the piano roll, there is only a finite level that i can zoom out to, and it is nowhere near acceptable for my purposes. Strangely, you can zoom so far in as to make the piano roll impossible to use.... *sigh*

Hink wrote: again you have no clue..what do you mean no mutiple undos...look in your browser see that thing history...that's not world history..

I admit I was wrong on this-I made the assumption that if i pressed Ctrl+Z (Thanks for your link, Carbonboy

) twice, that it would undo my last two operations- not just switch the last operation "on and off". Once again the programming of Fruity Loops absolutely baffles me...

Anyway, all apologies on my late replies- i would rather write music than play on KvR. And sorry if i never explained myself well, English is after all my second language...

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Thu May 26, 2005 1:56 pm

I did not attack you...I don't only use FL...

Oh, that makes sense then. When you've graduated from playing with kids toys, give me a buzz =)

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Cubas vs FL Studio