ACID Pro 5 - 2005 PAR Excellence Award winner

[kevvvvv]

I've owned Acid since V3.

The one thing it does really well is help make arrangements of acid loops. Full marks plus some for the original concept.

But once Acid tried to become a "proper sequencer" it all went pear shaped (too many bugs, poor vsti, poor manual, unresponsive forum etc)

We all had high hopes for v4, but saw these dashed as Acid got caught up in a takeover by people never really understood the plot.

So may I ask:

Billy Buck ... what is it about Acid that does it for you?

I listened to some of your mp3s and wondered.

Is it that you can slow down your audio tracks and jam along in the way that midi musicians have always done?

I'm trying to find which bit of Acid it is that really works for you like no other.

[digitalmessiah]

...Acid is crap because Sony is only interested in making more money instead of developing good userfriendly software...some of its acid librarys are fine but also overpriced...

tkay

when there's a new released 8-pack, sony has a 'deal of the week' on one of their loop libraries.

also, when there's a new remix contest, sony has a couple of loop libraries on sale for you to use on the remix. i bought ELECTROCUTION and METAROCK VISIONS for $19.99 each..and both are good libraries. i don't think they're overpriced.

[GypsyJazz]

.......It addresses many of the issues you have listed, in particular, the SQL server does now stop, when ACID exits. At least, it does now, on my computers. I verified this with the Windows Task Manager......

SQL server on a music machine?
ANATHEMA!

Media Manager?
For lamers who can't find files on their own PC!

The only useful piece of info I've gleaned from this
thread is the realisation that those awards are not to be taken seriously.....

[stale bread]

is it possible to install acid pro 5 with out the media manager and SQL stuff???

[SonicBreeze]

With all this long list in "What's new" in Blah blah version of ACID Pro, it is way behind the applications available for that price in the market. Adding all new features in a shabby way is not going to make it better. they should work after all.
A large majority thinks that ACID is deteriorated after version 3, and the most after going in the hands of SONY.
Ableton live, project5 and now Cubase SX 3 does the same thing with less bugs and giving lesser pain to users.

Some Award will not convince for its inability and degenaration. In fact such awards makes award giving organization questionable.

[SonicBreeze]

I forgot to add, 'Sony Vegas 5' is no less painful than 'Acid pro 5'. I hope sony will not screw our beloved 'SoundForge' in next version same way they did to other apps.

[billybk1]

So may I ask:

Billy Buck ... what is it about Acid that does it for you?

I listened to some of your mp3s and wondered.

Is it that you can slow down your audio tracks and jam along in the way that midi musicians have always done?

I'm trying to find which bit of Acid it is that really works for you like no other.

That is a great question. I don't think anyone has actually asked me that about that before.
To me, what makes ACID a unique tool to use is, it's inate ability to effortlessly bring disparate multi-media files together and then edit, arrange & mix those elements into a cohesive and hopefully, a compelling original piece of media. It could be creating a full blown arrangement or maybe just a simple drum and bass rhythm section or even scoring to video, in 5.1 surround sound. The whole idea is to bring into ACID, pre-existing and differing bits of media to edit, arrange and mix into something new, fresh and original. I will sometimes record audio and or MIDI directly, in ACID, but more often than not, I drag & drop pre-recorded media into ACID, and let ACID do what it does best, Edit, Arrange, Mix & Distribute.

With it's superb GUI, intuitive editing, use of Windows standard conventions and shortcuts and many convenient features like the scrollable mouse wheel zoom that automatically adjusts the timeline resolution as you zoom in & out. It is the ulitmate multi-media arranging, editing & mixing tool, IMO.

You can bring more than 20 different media file and format types, (audio & video), and files with differing bit depths and sample frequencies(up to 24/192), into an ACID project, by simply dragging and dropping from the Explorer view, into your project. No need to do any file import or file conversion nonsense, ACID does it automatically, on the fly. The most versatile media app I have ever used, in that respect, bar none. You can even bring .cda files, via CD Extract, directly off a commercial CD and into your project. Once all these files are in your ACID project, you can loop, slice & dice, slip edit, re-arrange, pan, fade, split, join, etc., most anything editing wise, with gapfree performance, during playback, which really can inspire your creativity. You can use ACID's flexible routing to mix your tracks, with full automation envelope mixing. You can use VST & DX plugins with full auto plugin delay compensation (PDC) too. But, it does not stop there, once you have your finished project, you have a plethora of vehicles, in to which to distribute it. You can create MP3's, burn DOA redbook CD's, create a AVI or WMV video files, render to standard wav, wma, among many other distributable formats, right from the project timeline. In addition, since ACID is format agnostic, you can export at any sampling rate and bit depth,(up to 24/192), regardless of what the current project is set at. I am only scratching the surface, of what I do in ACID, but I think you get the idea.

Now ACID Pro 5 brings so much more to the table, that I have been using ACID more in the last 6 months than I did in the whole previous three years. Unlike previous versions, these are features that I actually find useful and indespensible now. Folder Tracks, Bus to Bus routing, native VST support, Realtime Event Reverse, Rewire Slave support, Keyboard Mapping, Groove Mapping, Media Manager, etc., make ACID, at least for me, much more productive and even easier to use and enjoy.

I have an MP3, at Soundclick, called Candy Girl, that I created entirely, in ACID 5 and it all started with a simple drum loop, one afternoon. After I got the basic arrangment flushed out, I was able to come up with the melody and write the lyrics fairly quickly. All the drums, percussion and guitars tracks were created using acidized audio loops. The bass guitar, vocals, and finger snaps were recorded directly into ACID, as audio tracks. The piano track, toward the end, is a MIDI file, that I created in BIAB 2005 (Piano Blues Style) and brought into the project later. I did some minor MIDI editing to suit the context, of the song and ended up using an Edirol SuperQuartet VSTi piano patch. I also used a boatload of UAD-1 and Voxengo plugins during mixdown. I rendered the subsequent MP3, straight from the project timeline. I also rendered a .wma, for ACIDPlanet and burned a redbook standard DOA CD, at the same time. If not for the capabilities and inspiration of ACID Pro 5, that song would have never materialized!


BTW, I am using a 4 year old PIII 1Ghz/512MB DAW, that rarely, ever gives me problems and that includes when using ACID Pro 5 for hours, days and even weeks on end. I also do not limit myself to just using ACID either. If I know I will need to do multi-tracking with audio and/or MIDI the better tool for me will be SONAR 4, which I am also very familiar with, having used SONAR for years, since the very first release, of 1.0, and Pro Audio before that. I have been using sequencing software since the mid-eighties, so I am no johnny come lately, with computer's or music software. I first started with MasterTracks Pro, on an Atari 1040STe, in 1987, when MIDI was all the rage then eventually moved to Cubase 3.0, in the early 90's. I seen the music software scene change tremendously, in the last 20 years. I also have the means to choose to use any software apps I desire. But, for me, I'll keep using ACID Pro 5, Sound Forge 7 & SONAR 4 as my music making tools, of choice, until something better comes along.


Best regards,

Billy Buck

[xylyx]

...files with differing bit depths and sample frequencies(up to 24/192), into an ACID project, by simply dragging and dropping from the Explorer view, into your project. No need to do any file import or file conversion nonsense, ACID does it automatically, on the fly.

That is the one thing that I have always thought was good about Acid...I'm surprised that more sequencers haven't added this functionality into their repertoire.

[Karma_tba]

Yo Billy I must commend your courage in sticking up for Acid...I tried that once and got fully trashed for it.Anyway I thought since you have so much experience with the app maybe you might help me with a problem.Recently I installed the CM Sessions VST that came with Computer Music 86.At first all was well..it worked fine with the hosts I use..Acid,Orion,and,Tracktion.I noticed that the install created a second "VST Plugins" folder within my existing VST Plugins folder.I found this confusing so I renamed the folder "CM Sessions".Orion and Tracktion had no problem recognizing the plugin afterwards but Acid 5.0b would not,even after rescaning my VST plugins folder.I even used the preference page to point Acid at it as an alternate folder but to no avail.I would really like to use this great giveaway in Acid but.........can you help? BTW if anyone has experienced this and has a workaround I would greatly appreciate it. Oh yeah I'd rather not re-install NI's registration process is a pain!:help:

[cold c]

Orion and Tracktion had no problem recognizing the plugin afterwards but Acid 5.0b would not,even after rescaning my VST plugins folder.I even used the preference page to point Acid at it as an alternate folder but to no avail.I would really like to use this great giveaway in Acid but.........can you help? BTW if anyone has experienced this and has a workaround I would greatly appreciate it.

You could try uninstalling and reinstalling ACID, as I don't think reinstalling the plugin will help as ACID has kept a record of it in the registry. Uninstalling ACID will remove all ACID's references to the plugins in the registry.

[SonyPCH]

Karma:

If this is a VSTi, and you feel comfortable with editing the registry...

Wiht ACID NOT running, Locate the key

HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Sony Media Software\ACID Pro\5.0\Metrics\VSTi Synth\Plugs

in your registry and delete it.

Start ACID.

This forces ACID to rebuild all VSTi cache information.

Peter

[BC]

You can bypass the install of the MSDE SQL engine - just hit 'cancel' when it starts installing the Sony Media Manager. Then disbale Media Manager in the ACID preferences, and uninstall the SQL engine (if it's there) from Add/Remove programs.

I can semi/sorta see the benefit of the concept but I don't feel like I need it, nor do I want it. Should be an optional install, IMO.

I pick on ACID as much as anyone but I still use it quite a bit. It seems like it's Sony's turn "in the barrel", to be the fasionable to hate app-of-the-month.

That said - ACID does seem to have positioned itself in purgatory. It's not a full-fledged DAW but it's trying to do much more than a special-purpose utility.

I feel like Sony needs to beef it up, or trim it down. Give it full-on DAW features or trim it down to VSTi.

[Rabid]

I have used Acid since vs 1. Add me to the list of those who think things started to fall apart when they tried to impliment MIDI and VSTi's. A better solution would have been to focus on integration with DAW's. The fact that Acid got this award as a DAW is a horrible realization on how little credence this award should hold.

Robert

[Rednroll]

Well, Well Well.....

Billybk1 said:
But, emotions aside, let's stick to the facts, shall we?

Billybk1 said:
Basic MIDI functions were only first introduced, from scratch, in ACID 4.

Yes, let's stick to facts and let's get YOUR facts straight, before criticizing other people for their facts.

Billybk1 said:
This is from a bitter old former ACID user, with selective memory loss and an obvious axe to grind.

Billybk1 said:
I'd just be another, in a long line of opinionated, ignorant, know nothing, name callers.

As they say, if the shoe fits..........

Ok, so let's do as you say and talk some facts.

Fact#1:
Billybk1 is a beta tester for Acid. In return for his work as a beta tester he is given a FREE copy of Acid. Billybk1 is in this forum criticizing users that are disappointed with Acid who have PAID for their copies of Acid.

This is from a bitter old former ACID user, with selective memory loss and an obvious axe to grind.

As you may say this, then from Fact#1 I mention above, it can be concluded from recent Sony events, that Sony endorces beta testers who highlight all the benefits of the product, while other beta testers that constructively point out the short comings of the product get booted off the beta team and banned from the forums. So to maintain your good standing with Sony and to continue to receive FREE version updates, all your pro trumpet playing for Acid's benefits are nothing more than grinding the other side of the axe. Sorry, but my feeling is that if you REALLY know the software like you proclaim you do and use it in a "Pro" work environment, then you're able to easily point out the short comings of the software and give feedback that will benefit the product and expand it's appeal to a wider audience. So in my opinion you're sharpening of the blunt end of that axe, is only benefiting yourself.

FACT#2
The name of the app is Acid "PRO". Giving the app a name that proclaims it as a professional TOOL means that it's development should be targeted at the requirements of professional workflows. What does that mean in lamon terms? It means it needs to keep up with the Jones's and it's features need to be FULLY functional and not half-assed like the Acid midi implementation as ONE example. Many professionals require SYSEX recording abilities in their midi sequencer, because most ALL their external professional hardware with midi IN/OUT ports on them have a midi bulk dump/recieve feature, so they have the ability to alter sound module patches, internal memory settings and be able to quickly and easily change to and from different settings when going from session to session with MULTIPLE external hardware devices in a Recall/Restore type of fashion. Another Midi short coming is it's lack of ability to record more than one midi channel at a time. Professional recording studios need the capability to work with the outside world, which means clients will bring in sequences from their keyboards, drum machines, external sequencers, which are seperated by tracks on different midi channels and it is up to you to have the ability to record all those seperate midi tracks into YOUR "Professional" tool, so that you can do further work on them. And you MUST do this in a time effecient way as other professionals are capable of, so that YOU as a "professional" can also keep up with the Jones's. It's how YOU maintain to be competitive among other professionals. If the tools that you're using don't maintain to stay up with the competition, then YOU can't maintain to stay up with the competition, so the app is failing to support you. If that tool does not continue to grow with newer industry standard technologies, and professional workflows that other professional tools are then that tool no longer deserves to wear the name "Pro", because it is no longer a professional tool, that meets professional expectations. I could go on forever on the list of midi features that Acid is lacking, and I've done so since v3.0 when I opened the first beta version that I tested and gave this same feedback to Sony/Sonic Foundry way back then. It's pretty disheartening when you see an app that goes for $90 and is in it's first release development cycle and has more midi implementation than your "Pro" app (see Zynewave Podium www.zynewave.com). It's further disheartening when you see CONSUMER apps like Garage Band having hardware being specifically developed for them and your "Pro" app doesn't even offer generic hardware controler support. Not to mention GB can even record more than one audio track at a time. Again, I could go on for days with these comparisons when it comes to Acid and I HAVE in the Sony forums and in private discussions with the Sony developers in hope that the feedback would be taken seriously, but instead I got the door slammed in my face for offering constructive criticism.

FACT#3
Sony's flagship product is NOW "Vegas" due to it's Video editing feature support. How many new audio features did you see developed in Vegas 5, that where their development went further in Acid? Well, keyboard mapping made it in Acid, but it certainly didn't get further developed in Acid. How about that media manager? Development started in Acid to MM 1.0, and then Vegas came out with MM v2.0. Hmmmm? Do you think you might have gotten the "beta" version in the Acid release? Maybe Acid is just a stepping stone for Vegas features? Well we can certainly tell it's not the other way around, when what the majority of Sony users are asking for are the Vegas audio features in Acid, so they have a complete DAW solution. But no to that answer and no to Rewire support in Vegas, so you can use the 2 apps together. Maybe if we got the whole ball of wax for the media manager in the initial Acid release, so many of us wouldn't be having all these Media manager problems with the Acid 5.0b update. I just installed the 5.0b update, and now everytime I start Acid I get a nice error message that pops up on my screen, about "Initialize Media Manager failed." That leaves a nice impression with my clients now, everytime I start my "Pro" app and a nice error icon pops in the middle of my screen, and sometimes is followed by a nice crash of the app. Hmmmm....maybe if Sony wouldn't have slammed the door in my face, I would have felt a little more obliged to point the problem out to them during beta testing and work with them before the 5.0b release. I figured everything was honkey dorey though listening to your feedback and the great award given out. I even had a client say to me the last time I had to start the app and my nice error message popped up, "You're not using cracked software are you?" I had to reply, "no that's a new Acid "Pro" feature, don't worry about that....everythings running smoothly on this machine....really...no really it is."

So Billybk1, I've been using Acid since v1.0, Vegas since v1.0, and Forge since v4.0 and every version inbetween. If you want to talk further facts I will be happy too because, I'm definately no newby and am quite familiar with them. The point is, people in this discussion as well as many others are making valid points about the app and why they're disappointed. I work in the develoment of products, and this type of information is like GOLD. We go searching for this type of feedback so that we can better meet the user needs. We don't tell the users to go use another product because we have our own idea of what direction this product is headed in. We have constructive conversations with our customers to try and better understand the short comings. Sony is no longer interested in hearing this type of information. They've shown that by slamming the door in a loyal user's face like myself and then further updating forum regulations to discourage others in posting anything negative about their products. In addition, users use to feel a one on one personal relationship between themselves and an individual Sony employee's, and now every forum message is answered by the name "Forum Administrator", so individual developers remain anonymous. This is bad PR at it's best by lifting up an iron curtain between the developers and the user. Go constrast that by going to the Cakewalk Project 5 forum, where you see a pretty happy community openingly discussing the product with the developers, where you get the feeling that the developers are personal friends with the users and everyone is on the same page.

It's nice to see "SonyPCH" contributing in this discussion, at least we know one guy is here "listening" if nothing else.

Like you Billybk1, I was once a beta tester for Sony. First and foremost, I was always a user. From day one when I started visting the Sony forums I always mentioned short comings that I ran into when using their apps to assist in letting them know the tools that I needed in MY professional workflow. I never asked to be a beta tester, they invited me, because of my background of working in professional music recording studios as well as having a strong background in advertising production work at that time. Many of the audio editing features you see in Vegas was due to my one on one discussions with the Sony developers and explaining to them in lengthy detail the editing requirements needed in the advertising work environment and how I was acomplishing these tasks with a Neve Audiofile. The same guy that recognized some of my beneficial feedback and experience for that work environment, and who was asking questions regarding this workflow, was the same guy who eventually stabbed me in the back. I guess he got all those feature workflows worked out, which just so nicely fit with the new Vegas video "Paradigm" who also may be doing commercial type of work and could use some strong audio editing features. I too was like you and use to always speak highly about the Sony/Sonic Foundry products among my peers. Hopefully, you won't find yourself walking around with a knife in your back one day like me.

For me Cubase SX3 as well as Sonar 4 looks very attractive. Take note, Cubase SX3 now has an Acid style paint brush tool for it's loop sequencing. It also has a very advanced midi sequencer, as well as multitrack recording,editing, and mixing features. Quit jumping on the Sony excuse of the Acid "Paradigm" that adding these types of features may break that "Paradigm" and "Confuse" the user. Again, it's true "Paradigm" is that it's a "Pro" app by it's own name. Therefore, it is meant for "professional" use, and if a professional is getting easily confused by the tool they are using they need to think of looking for another career, because a professional learns how to use and master the tools that are available to them. The problem with Acid is that the tools are not available, and when they bring this point up to Sony they keep getting told, "that's not what Acid is about". Well, guess what the user will therefore buy a new app that has those tools they need. YOU and a handful of users are NOT going to be able to support further development of the tool you find so great if Sony doesn't stand up and recognize these facts, that their current strategy is a recipe for failure.

You know me Billybk1 and how long I've been at the Sony forums, I not only helped users on a daily basis with questions, but I also did a lot of reading in their forums as well as other outside forums and have grown to understand a lot of the needs from various users. I did nothing wrong in their forums but express my needs as well as other user needs. If a majority of your users in the forums are saying the same things time and time again, as a developer you need to address them in a timely manor and make them feel comfortable that the limitations they're running into today will eventually be met. The Sony forums are only a small portion of their userbase, but it certainly is a significant sample size to get a good feeling of user needs if you've ever had any problems and statistics classes like I have. Look around you, and see what other users are saying. These people are not criticizing because they hate the app. They're criticizing because they loved the app, but feel like the app has abandoned them while the rest of the apps that do similar tasks have moved on, thus the app has abandoned them, and no one likes to feel abandoned by someone/something they love and cherish. If they weren't saying anything, then that pretty much shows they could care less, and that's the bigger problem.

Raaghav Said:
I forgot to add, 'Sony Vegas 5' is no less painful than 'Acid pro 5'. I hope sony will not screw our beloved 'SoundForge' in next version same way they did to other apps.

Amen to that brother!!!!

[jsd]

SQL server on a music machine?
ANATHEMA!

Media Manager?
For lamers who can't find files on their own PC!

I don't know how many loops you have, but I've got many thousands. Being able to find all "bass" "electronic" "funky" loops from dozens of libraries with a few clicks is pretty damn useful.