Mr. Squids tell all

[telebunke]

Not so the rest of the library but the woodwinds are nice because woods sound good up close anyway.

VSL suffers from this too, imho.

Hmmm, interersting viewpoint. I got VSL Chamber Strings and I'm 100% happy that it's dry. It's hard to cut ambience away when you don't want it.
And since I'm into Pop, I sometimes like to have strings with veeeeery little ambience.

What's the Miroslav stuff like concerning ambience?

tele

[telebunke]

...GPO.. As for the material, I can't fairly share my opinion but I will at least say that I like Garritan's professional string library a whole lot better (but then the price is 10X as much... get what you pay for sometimes?)

Well, I'm neutral, so to say, so I'm gonna share my short GPO experience.
I composed some parts for a Pop song of mine, using staccato and marcato strings. Since I has no string library back then, I used what I got in One Bread&Butter Soundmodule. With that I went to a friend, who took my string arrangement and played it with GPO fpr me and I used what he did for me to go on. 4 weeks later I bought VSL Chamber Strings and my string arrangement sounded soooooo much better with the VSL stuff.
But the GPO sounds were certainly better than what I got from my Bread&Butter VSTI Soundmodule.

tele

[harmony gardens]

I still say that not getting into the GPO group buy is the equivalent of getting a $139 worth of epointz towards Philharmonik. I just wish it would get here. I have a rare oppertunity that I'm working on right now. It's an orchestral bed for a poetry project, and wish that I had Philharmonik for the job. Having said that, I've been able to find great sounds for the project from the soundz I already have in ST2, SS2 and the Strings collection. True, it's just a music bed, so the music is always under a spoken word, but they sound sweet to my ears, and I'm more discriminating than my clients, as a rule. Ok, it's not a symphony, but it definately has some dramatic moments. I will probably get Philharmonik, and not have another project that I need if for, for another year,,, lol. Timing,,,,,

[telebunke]

I forgot to add my personal conclusion. I would not buy GPO, even for $139. If I wanted an orchestra, I'd look for something else...

tele

[progfusion74]

I am saving up for Miroslav. I "think" I managed to resist the urge to get GPO or EWQLSO. I want one good string library for a particular project, and it certainly looks like Philharmonik is going to be the right choice.

[sghoughton]

I have to admit it killing me to wait for this. I was thinking of the GPO just tide me over for a month or so. My strings suck and I need something decent.

steve

[nexussynth]

Not so the rest of the library but the woodwinds are nice because woods sound good up close anyway.

VSL suffers from this too, imho.

Hmmm, interersting viewpoint. I got VSL Chamber Strings and I'm 100% happy that it's dry. It's hard to cut ambience away when you don't want it.
And since I'm into Pop, I sometimes like to have strings with veeeeery little ambience.

What's the Miroslav stuff like concerning ambience?

tele

VSL is very nice, btw. I agree that you are stuck with the built-in ambience in EWQLSO and MV but 80% of orchestral music is performed in a large hall or soundstage.

GPO and VSL have a nice intimate sound with the right small room verb.

It's when you go the other way, trying to get that sweeping orchestral granduer that they fall short imho.

I've been at this a long time and orchestral samples with some good ambience sampled-in sound fuller with a broader sound. VSL brass too sound a little weak because orchestral brass need a big hall to develope their proper soundwave. A trumpet for instance, sounds quite different when you are standing behind it than in front, and its that combination of direct and reflected sound without phase cancellation, that will make even a solo piccolo trumpet sound rich.

That is the approach Miroslav took with all the instruments seated in their proper placement making panning much less of a big deal. My old library has a nice blend of direct and reflected sound. MV is less so in this regard than the EWQLSO Gold which only has the wetter stage mic position (MV only has one mic position too but some samples were done in a studio, I believe). The Platinum would be the best of both worlds allowing intimate and grand ambience together. (still too expensive, though. Ouch!)

MV does not have 'release trails' (at least not in my very old version) so you would have more control, and the samples are not as 'wet' as EWQLSO.

Finally though, VSL is at the whole opposite end of the spectrum from GPO and Philharmonik. Man, its EXPENSIVE!! (for the pro series, anyway).

Your're gettin' a lot of orchestra for very little money with this new Miroslav. And choir and pipe organ too? I don't think VSL even has a choir yet, do they?

It also sounds to me from the demo, that the Miroslav has more than a single layer of dynamics happening there, unlike GPO which has only one.

Some versions of the orginal MV library had a single layer but I'll bet this one is different.

bottom line: built-in ambience for orchestral samples is actually not marketing hype!

[nexussynth]

I have to admit it killing me to wait for this. I was thinking of the GPO just tide me over for a month or so. My strings suck and I need something decent.

steve

GPO strings are at one dynamic only, unlike the full GOS set they are derived from. They use the mod wheel exclusively for volume changes. This is good and bad. It makes nice swells and decrescendi, but soft playing just sounds like the volume was turned down. There is none of that nice bow noise you hear from quiet string playing. It does offer mutes though, but I don't know if these are actual muted string samples or eq'd versions.

There are NO sharp down bows or spiccati at all! These articulations are attempted with Kontakt's extensive programming power, but they just don't make it at all, imo.

The pizz sound very good to my ears, though.

[telebunke]

That is the approach Miroslav took with all the instruments seated in their proper placement making panning much less of a big deal. My old library has a nice blend of direct and reflected sound. MV is less so in this regard than the EWQLSO Gold which only has the wetter stage mic position

So, to sum it up, MV samples are not as wet as EWQL Gold, but also not as dry as VSL? That sounds good to me, cause I'll need some ambience for my pop songs anyway, and adding some reverb can still be done, if I need more.

Maybe you fee like sharing one of your mp3s, done with MV strings, without adding any reverb or other effects?

tele

[Caleb]

It occurs to me that times in the past when I've been griping about the absence or quality of some orchestral instrument in SS1 or SS2 that Squids was probably sitting back rubbing his hands in almost uncontained amusement.

I've loved SS1 and I love SS2 even if just for TheOne patch, but I don't think any of my SR purchases is quite going to compare to Philharmonik. This was the SR product made with me in mind - the cheapskate who won't purchase the big orchestral libraries but wants them anyway.

I don't think I'm going to be griping this time.

Caleb

[Squids]

The price was ALWAYS the strong point of GPO though. Garritan was responsible for making the low price breakthrough in orchestral libraries and I respect him greatly for doing that. He even caught hell from a couple (nameless) competing developers who called him to complain about his low price!

Hmmm, is that a 100% sure statement of s.th. that happend truely or is it more like gossip?

tele

There's always a point where you go too far in slashing prices coming off doing a high end product to where it gives a false impression (that you can get a Porsche for the price of a Honda... or something like that). His original string library was quite nice and gained respect. Then GPO came off as if orchestral libraries could all just be this cheap. But not without sacrifices (in reality). So, it is understandably annoying to those who have invested hundreds of thousands of dollars to sell high end orchestral libraries to have any misconceptions in the marketplace. I wouldn't be surprised if some developers DID call him to complain to him directly. But, what can you do? He could charge $2. if he wants. It is his business. I doubt he really cares if other developers like him.

For me personally, I just don't like people to forget that sometimes you have to pay more for certain things that are different and special. VSL, for instance, is very expensive but I still think it is some great value for money. If you like the effort they went to then you get your money's worth because it'd be real hard to do all that and sell it for less. Of course, if a lot of the GB of material and work are things you don't need then sometimes a product can be "over the top".

For Miroslav Philharmonik we are going about as low as we can and after all the work and costs involved we may have understimated how big the project would be to do it the way we'd really like it to be. But, we have faith that it will sell a lot because it is all relative. If you make a really great product that people want/need then they find a way to get it almost regardless of the price... this at least on the whole. Then it often balances out the fact that you made it cheaper than it really should have been.

[Squids]

Regarding sounds with natural ambience. In my opinion as a sound developer and recording engineer, you want to either capture the sound of an instrument in a great room or hall, where the acoustics bring out very musically pleasing qualities of the instrument or you want to record it in a dry room with good mic placement to capture a pure sound that will have flexibility for processing later.

Typically, I try to give the most flexibility possible to our users because we started the company catering only to top producers, songwriters, recording and touring artists. They'd want the flexibility they need to take the "material" and mold it to their song. So, I've recorded orchestral instruments in a variety of environments. While I like a good dry recording for flexibility I am also just as much or even more of a fan of a beautiful instrument captured with the great acoustic space it most appropriately fits in. It provides context and dimension. If done the way Miroslav did it, you get that plus a good balance of dry to wet so you still have the flexibility to process it without losing definition.

There is a certain magic of an instrument in a great acoustic space. If you capture that in addition to orchestral spacial positioning you gain an instant familiar symphonic recording sound. I quite like that. It's effortless and would be hard to replicate by processing and panning.

Look, I tell it like I feel. I personally don't think that any one orchestral library does it all. There are just too many different flavors. But, you can see that Miroslav Philharmonik does a LOT and gives you a nice range of flavors that are inspiring for orchestral composition. It may not be the only orchestral product you'll ever have but it is certainly a GREAT one to have in your set up. It is a staple in my set up and I am enjoying it more than any other orchestral collection I've ever had and I have a lot of good ones.

[telebunke]

If done the way Miroslav did it, you get that plus a good balance of dry to wet so you still have the flexibility to process it without losing definition.

That sounds really good and by the demos that I've heard, I assume that even though one might eventually like to have them all, for my purpuse MV will really satify my needs for orchestral sounds.

tele

[Squids]

If done the way Miroslav did it, you get that plus a good balance of dry to wet so you still have the flexibility to process it without losing definition.

That sounds really good and by the demos that I've heard, I assume that even though one might eventually like to have them all, for my purpuse MV will really satify my needs for orchestral sounds.

tele

It is a really good one to have. For many people it could very well be all they need to cover orchestral stuff. It is probably the quickest one to use to sound like a real orchestra without a lot of hard work. (but, it still can take some work! just less)

[Mr. Tunes]

i liked that interview with dave. i love all the interviews with him. all i can say is he's an incredible person and it was THE highlight of my year to get to meet him for the first time. the reason SR's products are so good is because they are made by solid personalities who value music production more than other manufacturers who only care about the dollas.

when they announce something i always know it's going to be good and the early version of Philharmonik was sounding great at namm.

i can never have enough praise for them because i make music everyday and if it werent for their sounds i wouldnt feel as great about my music as i do. however, lately it's pretty hard to write an orchestral score knowing about this product on the horizon.

anxious,

mr. tunes.